Hudson's Bay House
                     
                  
               22 November 1858
               
               Sir
                
            
            
               I have the honour to acknowledge the receipt of
               
Mr Elliott's letter of the 
6th
                  Instant
               
               transmitting the copy of a letter from the Foreign Office, suggesting
               that this Company should prepare
               
               a full statement of the grounds in which they consider the claim to
               navigate the 
Columbia River after the expiration of their trading
               monopoly is to be maintained, and after the cession to the United States
               of their possessory rights, if any arrangement for such cession should be
               made.
               
               
               With regard to the
first
 first part of the question I beg to state that
               this Company cannot discover any connection between the right reserved to
               them by the Oregon Treaty to navigate the 
Columbia River and the
               expiration of their trading monopoly, because the right to navigate the
               
Columbia River is reserved to them and to all parties trading with them
               quite irrespective of the exclusive licence granted to them by the Crown.
               
               This company traded in that part of the 
Oregon Territory which has
               since been ceded to the United States long before they had any exclusive
               License from the Crown; and therefore should they continue to hold their
               property in that portion of the 
Oregon Territory for the purpose of Trade
               after the expiration of the License it is

 perfectly clear that for the
               purpose of such trade the right to navigate the river would be preserved
               both to themselves and to any British Subjects trading with them.  The
               Article of the Treaty which reserves the right to this Company refers in
               no way whatever to the exclusive License.  In fact there is nothing to
               lead to the supposition that the Government of the United States had any
               knowledge of any such License.  It had always been supposed that the
               Territory in question belonged to Great Britain, and it was under that
               assumption that this Company had been in the habit of trading there,
               and in connection with that trade had erected forts and acquired other
               rights and property, and it was for the purposes of their trade generally
               that the reservation on the Treaty was introduced that the

 navigation of
               the Great Northern Branch of the 
Columbia River should be free and open
               to them and to those trading with them.
               
               It appears obvious upon the face of the Treaty that the provisions
               in those Articles which concern this Company were considered to be of a
               permanent character, and not determinable at the expiration of the few
               years when the License would expire.
               
            
            
               I may mention that the suggestion that the right of this Company to
               navigate the 
Columbia River had any connection with their exclusive
               privilege in the Territory in question is altogether new to them, and
               they are quite in the dark as to the grounds upon which such a suggestion
               can have been brought forward.
               
               The other part of the question proposed in the letter from
the
 the
               Foreign Office appears to assume that this Company contend that, should
               they cede to the United States the Possessory Rights which are preserved
               to them by the 3
rd Article of the Treaty, they would still be entitled
               to navigate the 
Columbia River under the provisions of the 2
nd
               Article.
               
               I beg to state that this view of the subject has never been taken on
               the part of this Company, but on the contrary, they have always
               considered that while the 2
nd Article secured to them the navigation
               of the 
Columbia River for the purposes of their trade, that Article would
               become of no effect should they cede to the United States the Possessory
               Rights secured to them by the 3
rd Article.  Those Possessory Rights in
               point of fact represented the means by which the Hudson's Bay Company
               carried on their trade in this Territory, and as they have always

               considered that the navigation of the 
Columbia River had reference only
               to the purposes of the trade they so carried on, the surrender of the
               means of carrying on that trade would necessarily carry with it the right
               to the navigation of the River, which was reserved to them solely in
               connection with that Trade.
               
               The correspondence which passed upon this subject in the year
               
1852
               
               appears to have been overlooked.  At that period a Treaty was in
               negotiation for the transfer by the Company to the United States of the
               Possessory rights secured to them by the Oregon Treaty, and, under date
               the 
1st September 1852, 
Captain Shepherd, on behalf of this Company,
               transmitted to 
Lord Malmesbury a Memorandum upon the Subject, to which it
               may be convenient that you should refer, and I have now the honour

 to
               send herewith a copy of 
Captain Shepherd's letter and of the accompanying
               statement.
               
               At that period the only difficulty which appeared to arise in
               carrying out the cession to the United States had reference to their
               requiring a surrender in terms of the right to navigate the 
Columbia
                  River, as a consequence of the cession to them of the possessory rights
               reserved to this Company.  This Company considered that the United States
               were clearly entitled to have those terms introduced into the Convention,
               and 
Captn Shepherd's Letter of the 
1st September had for its object
               to support the view taken by the United States, and with the same
               view 
Mr Colvile, the then Governor of the Company, addressed
               a further letter to 
Lord Malmesbury, under date 
28th October 1852,
               of which I also send a copy herewith.
               
 
            
            
               In reply to these communications 
Lord Stanley, the then Under
               Secretary for Foreign Affairs, addressed to 
Mr Colvile a letter dated
               
6th November 1852, in which he fully recognized the conclusion come to
               by this Company that the surrender of the possessory rights would have
               the effect of putting an end to the right of navigating the 
Columbia
                  River, but he treated the insertion of any provision in the proposed
               Convention to that effect as being superfluous, and as being calculated
               to give the impression that the British Government were conceding
               something, when in fact they conceded nothing, inasmuch as the right to
               navigate the River would, in the view of all parties, come to an end with
               the cession of the Possessory rights of this Company.
               
               I send you with this a copy of the letter received from 
Lord Stanley
 Stanley
               on this occasion, which you will find entirely bears out the view which
               the Company take as to the effect of the cession of their rights.  Should
               the United States still desire that in the proposed Convention for
               surrendering to them the Possessory rights of this Company a provision
               should be introduced distinctly disclaiming any rights to the future
               navigation of the 
Columbia River under the provisions of the Oregon
               Treaty, I trust that it will be felt that there can be no objection to
               the introduction of such a provision, as it would be very much to be
               regretted that the present negociation should fall to the ground from a
               refusal to consent to what is on all hands felt to be a matter of form,
               and not of substance.
               
               Minutes by CO staff
               
                
                  
                  Mr Elliot
                     Transmit copy to the Foreign Office at whose instance the Company were
                     requested to furnish information on the question of the Navigation
                     of the 
River Columbia?
                     
 
                  
                  
                   
                  
                  
                     It appears to me from the mem. enclosed and the previous
                     correspondence in 1852 that the H.B.C. view is the correct and indeed
                     the reasonable one.  I do not think that it will be necessary to do more
                     than to forward these papers to the F.O.  The difficulty has been one of
                     their own creation and in evident forgetfulness of what passed in 1852.
                     
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                     Copy to F.O. which knows as much about H.B.C.  as it does about
                     the state of the alphabet before the time of
                     Cadmus.
                     
                     
                  
                  
                  
                   
                
            
            
            
               Other documents included in the file
               
               
                
            
            
            
               Documents enclosed with the main document (not transcribed)
               
                
                  
                  
                     Draft, 
John Shepherd to 
Malmesbury, Foreign Office, 
1 September 1852, enclosing memorandum regarding proposed sale of the possessory
                     rights of the Hudson's Bay Company in 
Oregon to the United States.
                     
 
                  
                  
                     Memorandum, Hudson's Bay House, 1 September 1858, observations
                     on the sale of possessory rights of the company to the United States.
                     
                   
            
            
            
               
               
                  People in this document
                  
                        Berens, Henry Hulse
                  
                        Carnarvon, Earl
                  
                        Colvile, Eden
                  
                        Elliot, Thomas Frederick
                  
                        Hammond, Edmund
                  Jadis, Vane
                  Lytton, Sir Edward George Earle Bulwer
                  Malmesbury, Earl
                  
                        Shepherd, Captain, HBC Governor John
                  Stanley, Lord Edward Henry
                
               
                  Places in this document
                  Columbia River
                  Oregon Territory, or Columbia District