Colonial Despatches
The colonial despatches of Vancouver Island and British Columbia 1846-1871
Despatch to London
Douglas, Sir James to Lytton, Sir Edward George Earle Bulwer 31 May 1859, CO 60:4, no. 7332, 411.
Abstract
Douglas, Sir James to Lytton, Sir Edward George Earle Bulwer 31 May 1859, CO 60:4, no. 7332, 411.
Despatch to London.
Minutes (2), Enclosures (untranscribed) (4), Other documents (1).
No. 161
With reference to your Despatch of the 16th November 1858,
No 42, transmitting the copy of a Letter, dated the 12th October
1858, from the Deputy Governor of the Hudsons Bay Company, together
with your reply thereto, respecting the possession of land occupied
by that
that Company in British Columbia previous to the recent
immigration of Gold Miners, I have now the honor to address you
upon the subject, in compliance with the instructions contained in
your Despatch.
that Company in British Columbia previous to the recent
immigration of Gold Miners, I have now the honor to address you
upon the subject, in compliance with the instructions contained in
your Despatch.
2. You inform me that for want of information as to the extent
of the Territory which would be included in the claim of the Company,
and the relation which in parts of British Columbia it may bear to
the Gold Fields, you were not prepared to return a definite answer
to the request of the Company, and also that in estimating the extent
of their claim
claim you were disposed to draw a considerable distinction
between Land which has been subjected to cultivation or has involved
outlay on the part of the Company, or, which is necessary to the
maintenance of their existing Stock or Establishment, and Land which
has served the more occasional purpose of affording pasturage to
herds or beasts of burden.
claim you were disposed to draw a considerable distinction
between Land which has been subjected to cultivation or has involved
outlay on the part of the Company, or, which is necessary to the
maintenance of their existing Stock or Establishment, and Land which
has served the more occasional purpose of affording pasturage to
herds or beasts of burden.
3. You therefore instruct me to inform you as accurately as
I can of the extent and character of the land claimed by the Hudson's
Bay Company around their Forts, and direct me to add any suggestions
which
which my experience and local knowledge may enable me to furnish.
which my experience and local knowledge may enable me to furnish.
4. You at the same time impress upon me that it is the wish
of Her Majesty's Government to take a liberal view of the claims
of the Company, consistently of course with what is due to the
public interests of the Colony, and that wherever a fair title to
property can be made out by them, Her Majesty's Government are
ready to afford their support and countenance for the protection
of that property.
5. On the receipt of your Despatch I called upon the Agents
of
of the Hudson's Bay Company to furnish me with a statement of the
Lands occupied by them previous to the recent immigration of
Miners into British Columbia, and I received a communication
from the President and Council of Chief Factors and Traders,
dated Victoria 16 February 1859, declaring the position and extent
of their land claims. A copy of this communication is herewith
transmitted for your information.
of the Hudson's Bay Company to furnish me with a statement of the
Lands occupied by them previous to the recent immigration of
Miners into British Columbia, and I received a communication
from the President and Council of Chief Factors and Traders,
dated Victoria 16 February 1859, declaring the position and extent
of their land claims. A copy of this communication is herewith
transmitted for your information.
6. I also forward herewith a tabular statement of those claims,
shewing, with reference to your instructions, the conditions under
which the land is held, that is
is to say if
I. It has involved outlay
II. It has been brought into cultivation, or
III. Was necessary for the maintenance of existing stock
and establishment, or
IV. Had served for occasional pasture.
is to say if
I. It has involved outlay
II. It has been brought into cultivation, or
III. Was necessary for the maintenance of existing stock
and establishment, or
IV. Had served for occasional pasture.
This Document will probably supply, though in a general manner,
the information under those several heads which you directed me to
furnish.
7. The lands thus claimed have no connection with the Gold
fields; none is used for gold mining, nor is any part of the land
known to be auriferous.
8. I observe from the letter of
of the Deputy Governor before
referred to, that it is the desire of the Hudson's Bay Company to
have the extent of their possessions defined before the influx of
population into British Columbia, and further that the Company
found a Title to the lands occupied by their Establishments in
British Columbia on the Treaty of 1846, wherein Her Majesty's
Government, as well as the Government of the United States, have
recognized the Title of the Company to land in Oregon.
of the Deputy Governor before
referred to, that it is the desire of the Hudson's Bay Company to
have the extent of their possessions defined before the influx of
population into British Columbia, and further that the Company
found a Title to the lands occupied by their Establishments in
British Columbia on the Treaty of 1846, wherein Her Majesty's
Government, as well as the Government of the United States, have
recognized the Title of the Company to land in Oregon.
9. I conceive that the Hudson's Bay Company have strong claims
to be regarded with favourable consideration by
by Her Majesty's
Government upon the following grounds:
by Her Majesty's
Government upon the following grounds:
First The Country west of the Rocky Mountains was previous
to the Company's occupation held by Foreigners. The Company
succeeded, but not without great exertion and heavy expense, in
gaining possession and holding it for Great Britain.
Secondly The Company have incurred a heavy pecuniary loss
through the revocation of their exclusive rights of Trade in
British Columbia nearly Twelve months before the legal termination
of the License under which they enjoyed the privilege. I am
not entirely considering the losses which must naturally have
resulted
resulted from the interruption to the ordinary pursuits of the
Company, but, more particularly, the losses which it has been
represented to me they have sustained from special causes
connected with and dependent upon their position in the Country.
For example, viewing their rights of Trade in the Country as
exclusive, the Company justly conceived that Her Majesty's
Government would hold them morally responsible for the safety of
the Mining population, and on that supposition, to my own knowledge,
they made prodigious efforts, and spared no expense, even when
prices ruled high, in laying in large stocks of food to meet the
probable demand. In consequence of
of the opening of the Trade these
supplies have been left on hand, only a few days ago I was informed
on the most creditable authority that the actual loss incurred
merely through the subsequent fall of prices was upwards of Fifteen
Thousand Pounds!
resulted from the interruption to the ordinary pursuits of the
Company, but, more particularly, the losses which it has been
represented to me they have sustained from special causes
connected with and dependent upon their position in the Country.
For example, viewing their rights of Trade in the Country as
exclusive, the Company justly conceived that Her Majesty's
Government would hold them morally responsible for the safety of
the Mining population, and on that supposition, to my own knowledge,
they made prodigious efforts, and spared no expense, even when
prices ruled high, in laying in large stocks of food to meet the
probable demand. In consequence of
of the opening of the Trade these
supplies have been left on hand, only a few days ago I was informed
on the most creditable authority that the actual loss incurred
merely through the subsequent fall of prices was upwards of Fifteen
Thousand Pounds!
Thirdly There is another point which I would bring before
Her Majesty's Government in connection with the consideration of
these claims. The Government of the United States have not
confirmed the right of the Hudson's Bay Company to the lands in
Oregon, and will doubtless watch with interest the action of Her
Majesty's Government with regard to the claims of the Company in
British Columbia
Columbia, drawing a parallel between the two cases, and
readily adopting the course pursued by Her Majesty's Government
if unfavourable to the admission of any equitable right of Title.
Columbia, drawing a parallel between the two cases, and
readily adopting the course pursued by Her Majesty's Government
if unfavourable to the admission of any equitable right of Title.
10. The lands claimed by the Company in British Columbia, with
the exception of the Posts on the lower parts of Fraser's River,
are not of any extraordinary value for the purposes of settlement;
and moreover, they are at so great a distance from the Sea that
years will probably elapse before they can be settled. Taking
these circumstances into consideration it does not, therefore,
appear that the public interests of
of the Colony will be seriously
affected by a recognition of the Company's claims, and such
recognition would, undoubtedly, be regarded as a graceful act of
justice on the part of Her Majesty's Government.
of the Colony will be seriously
affected by a recognition of the Company's claims, and such
recognition would, undoubtedly, be regarded as a graceful act of
justice on the part of Her Majesty's Government.
11. I have availed myself of the presence of Colonel Moody to
consult with him upon the various points in connection with the
Company's claims, and I forward herewith for your information, as
directed by your Despatch No. 42, of the 16th November last,
the written report upon the subject which I have received from that
Officer.
12. It will be seen that Colonel
Colonel Moody is in favor of
recognizing the
general principle of the Company's
claims; but proposes that the land at Langley and Fort Hope should be
curtailed in extent, and an equivalent given at other places on Fraser's River, a proposal to which I should not think the Company would
be inclined to object.
Colonel Moody is in favor of
recognizing the
general principle of the Company's
claims; but proposes that the land at Langley and Fort Hope should be
curtailed in extent, and an equivalent given at other places on Fraser's River, a proposal to which I should not think the Company would
be inclined to object.
13. Until Her Majesty's Government arrive at a decision upon
the matter, we shall respect the lands claimed by the Hudson's Bay
Company, and will not make any sale or transfer within their
limits, and it is therefore important that an immediate
immediate settlement
be effected, as well upon that account, as for the prevention of
the difficulties and complaints that, otherwise, will be of
constant occurrence.
immediate settlement
be effected, as well upon that account, as for the prevention of
the difficulties and complaints that, otherwise, will be of
constant occurrence.
Minutes by CO staff
Documents enclosed with the main document (not transcribed)
A. Dallas, J. Work, R. Finlayson, and C. Dodd,
Hudson's Bay Company, to Douglas, 16 February
1859, discussing land claims of the company in British Columbia.
Statement of claims for land in British Columbia
by the Hudson's Bay Company.
Tabular Statement of Land in British Columbia held
by the Hudson's Bay Company.
Other documents included in the file
Draft, Colonial Office to Emigration Commissioners, 15 August 1859,
forwarding copies of correspondence relative to land claims made by the
Hudson's Bay Company in British Columbia for report.
People in this document
Fortescue, 1st Baron Carlingford Chichester
Lytton, Sir Edward George Earle Bulwer
Moody, Colonel Richard Clement