No. 35
               
            
            
               6 May 1861
               
            
            
               I trust your Grace will not deem me importunate in again
               bringing before your notice the subject of the claims of the
               Hudsons Bay Company to lands in 
British Columbia. The inconvenience of those claims being still unsettled, or even any basis of settlement
               determined upon, is daily
more
 more felt, and in proportion with the delay so will the difficulty of a final adjustment
               be increased, the more especially as the Agents of the Hudsons Bay
               Company, presuming upon the provisional concessions made by this
               Government in reserving quantities of land to meet their claims
               if confirmed by Her Majesty's Government will affect, and, in
               truth, already do affect, to regard as a right what was simply
               intended as an act of consideration and courtesy, for I am not
               aware that, otherwise, it was incumbent upon this Government to
               step in between the Hudsons Bay
Company
 Company and the public to reserve to the former more than what they had actually
               enclosed and
               actually occupied.
               
 
            
            
               2.  I do not forget that the subject is one involving many
               considerations, and one with which Her Majesty's Government may
               have some difficulty in dealing, from the very 
general character in which the claims are preferred, and it therefore
               may not be out of place for me to submit a few remarks which,
               perhaps, might assist Her Majesty's Government in disposing of
               the questions in a manner at once equitable to the Hudsons Bay
               Company
and
 and to the Colony, or at all events which might establish a basis of settlement that
               would be of material assistance to us
               here, in dealing with many of the complicated cases which are
               frequently arising in connection with the Company's claims, more
               especially at 
Yale and 
Hope.
               
 
            
            
               3. The Grant made by Her Majesty's Government of the exclusive right of Trade on the
               western coast of North America was a valuable privilege which the Hudsons Bay Company
               enjoyed for many years, but the 
Charter contains no provision granting the fee of the soil to the
Hudsons
 Hudsons Bay Company, or agreement for compensation upon the expiration of the grant.
               Such being the case the Hudsons Bay Company can have no legal claim 
founded on the Charter to free grants of land in 
British Columbia.
               
 
            
            
               4.  Her Majesty's Government may, however, be of opinion that
               the Hudson's Bay Company have claims to consideration in consequence
               of the abrupt termination of the Charter in 
1858, soon after and by reason of the discovery of Gold in 
British Columbia.  The
               Charter it is true legally expired within a few months
of
 of its
               revocation, but it might have been renewed, had it not been for
               that circumstance.
               
 
            
            
               5. Should Her Majesty's Government be disposed to take this
               liberal view of the position of the Hudsons Bay Company, and the
               Despatches which I have had the honor to receive upon the subject
               lead me to such a conclusion, I would take the liberty of
               recommending, on that ground 
solely, the transfer in fee to the Company of all places occupied by existing Forts or Posts
               and
               necessary for carrying on the business of the Company, together
               with any fields or gardens 
actually enclosed by fences
and
 and under
               cultivation, provided however that no such grant should exceed
               100 Acres of country land at any one place, except at 
New Langley
               and 
Kamloops where the Company have a large number of Cattle and Horses, and where the grant might
               be increased to 500 Acres, but in towns the grant should be restricted to building
               lots actually
               occupied by the Company's business Houses, at 
Yale for instance,
               to the Town Lots at present occupied by their dwelling and Store
               Houses, and at 
Hope to the site of their Buildings and to the
               adjacent carral.
               
 
            Having
            
            
               6.  Having received invariably so much consideration and favor
               from Her Majesty's Government the Hudsons Bay Company have no real
               claim to privileges other than would be conceded to their fellow
               subjects, and it cannot be required in equity or in sound policy
               that they should have a gift made to them of town or country land
               for the mere purpose of sale.  They cannot want more than I have
               here suggested for business purposes.  They could only utilize
               larger tracts of land by speculating on its resale at a higher
               price, as they have done and are now daily doing at 
Victoria,
and
 and
               however anxious Her Majesty's Government, as well as myself, may
               be that the most liberal consideration should be accorded the
               position of the Company, still the interests of the Colony are
               undoubtedly pre-eminent and must be so regarded.
               
 
            
            
               7.  If Her Majesty's Government approve of what I herein
               submit, either as a settlement, or as a basis of settlement, I
               will, under their instructions, carry the same into effect by
               marking out the several Establishments and the lands appertaining
               to each, both
in
 in towns and in country places.  This will have the
               effect of removing many difficulties and embarrassments now
               existing in respect to lands claimed by other individuals, and
               it will bring the question to a decision;  and should the Hudsons
               Bay Company consider they have further legal or equitable rights
               of claim, they will be at liberty, like other of Her Majesty's
               Subjects to appeal to the Civil Courts of the Colony.
               
 
            
            
               I have the honor to be
               My Lord Duke
               Your Graces most obedient
               and humble Servant
               
James Douglas
                
            
            
            
            
            
               Minutes by CO staff
               
               
                  
                  Mr Fortescue
                     This, as I understand, is a new and original proposal of the
                     Governor's of a mode of settlement with the Company.  I believe
                     it to be very doubtful whether you would have in any event
                     considered it an eligible proposal, but the accompanying letter
                     is at this moment ready to go to the company for the purpose of
                     carrying into effect a different mode of settlement which has
                     been mutually agreed upon between them and the Government.  The
                     practical question seems to be whether this despatch from the
                     Governer gives any reason to suspend the sending off of the letter
                     to the Company.
                     
 
                  
                  
                     You have so entirely watched the whole course of the
                     negotiation on the subject that I merely submit the point and do
                     not attempt to offer any opinion.
                     
                  
                  
                   
               
               
                  
                  
                     Duke of Newcastle
                     Considering the vast extent of the land claims of the H.B.Co.
                     in 
B. Columbia—93,000 acres, there can be no use in making this offer to them—but we had better
                     have a report upon it from 
Mr
                        Murdoch?
                     
 
                  
                  
                   
               
               
               
               
                  
                  
                     I was fortunately quite mistaken.
                     
                  
                  
                  
                   
                
            
            
               Other documents included in the file
               
               
                  
                  
                     Draft, 
Fortescue to 
H.H. Berens, Hudson's Bay Company, 
9 August
                        1861, describing the governor's proposal for settlement of the company's
                     land claims and requesting any observations on the subject.