Colonial Despatches
The colonial despatches of Vancouver Island and British Columbia 1846-1871
Public Offices document
Lugard, Edward
to
Elliot, Thomas Frederick 28 May 1863, CO 60:17, no. 5193, 355.
Abstract
Lugard, Edward
to
Elliot, Thomas Frederick 28 May 1863, CO 60:17, no. 5193, 355.
Public Offices document.
Minutes (8), Enclosures (transcribed) (1), Other documents (2), Marginalia (1).
Lugard to Elliot (Assistant Under-Secretary)
War Office
28 May 1863
Referring to your letter of the 28th March last, relative
to the withdrawal of the detachment of Royal Engineers
from British Columbia, I am directed by the Secretary of
State for War to transmit to you for the information ofthe
the Duke of Newcastle, the enclosed copy of a letter from
the Horse Guards stating that steps are being taken for
carrying out this arrangement.
the Duke of Newcastle, the enclosed copy of a letter from
the Horse Guards stating that steps are being taken for
carrying out this arrangement.
Minutes by CO staff
Mr Elliot
Acquaint the Governor: & request him to inform Colonel Moody that the Duke of Newcastle will under these circes select a successor to him in the Office of Chief Commissioner of Lands and Works.
Acquaint the Governor: & request him to inform Colonel Moody that the Duke of Newcastle will under these circes select a successor to him in the Office of Chief Commissioner of Lands and Works.
I think we must be careful not to employ any terms which
will give Coll Moody an oppy of offering to stay in
B.C. in
the capacity of Ch. Commr. He is not unlikely to
offer to leave the Army, if he cd be continued in his
present office—an arrangement which I judge the
Duke of Newcastle wd not listen to.
the capacity of Ch. Commr. He is not unlikely to
offer to leave the Army, if he cd be continued in his
present office—an arrangement which I judge the
Duke of Newcastle wd not listen to.
Duke of Newcastle
The only question connected with this matter, about wh. there may be a doubt, is whether or no a few of the Engineers could be retained for the purposes of the Land Office. Unless some of them be retained in that service, it will fall into confusion. But when discharged, they may no doubt be employed as civilians, though at a much greater expense. I sent you lately a mem. of Capt. Gossett's on this point. Would it not be worth while to ask the W.O. to leave say 25 of the men?
The only question connected with this matter, about wh. there may be a doubt, is whether or no a few of the Engineers could be retained for the purposes of the Land Office. Unless some of them be retained in that service, it will fall into confusion. But when discharged, they may no doubt be employed as civilians, though at a much greater expense. I sent you lately a mem. of Capt. Gossett's on this point. Would it not be worth while to ask the W.O. to leave say 25 of the men?
CF
30
This despatch takes no notice of the proposal of Jany last that some of the men should be allowed to settle in the Colony
at the expiration of 5 years service instead of six.
I have no doubt the retention of a few of the Men and
the Officers for the work of the Office & superintendence
of the Public Works would be very valuable. The proposition
to the W.O. for three Officers & 25 Men to be selected for
this purpose or allowed to volunteer may be made.
I suppose they must form a little Colonial Corps.
N
31
Other documents included in the file
Minutes by CO staff
Such a letter as this would not in ordinary course be signed by the
Secretary of State, but I have sketched the draft in that form,
entirely subject to consideration, in case the Duke should be
disposed to pay Coll Moody the compliment of writing to him himself.
TFE
8/7
Other documents included in the file
*
Minutes by CO staff
Mr Fortescue
Since the minutes on this letter from the War Office were written I have called by desire of the Duke of Newcastle on Sir E. Lugard, in order to seek information on the practicability of separating a section of the Royal Engineers for further service. Sir E. Lugard said that it would be very difficult and deprecated the measure on the ground that this particular Company of Engineers appeared by all the accounts that we receive to have been somewhat overindulged, and that it was probable that retaining a part of them might only prolong heart burnings and difficulties.
Since the minutes on this letter from the War Office were written I have called by desire of the Duke of Newcastle on Sir E. Lugard, in order to seek information on the practicability of separating a section of the Royal Engineers for further service. Sir E. Lugard said that it would be very difficult and deprecated the measure on the ground that this particular Company of Engineers appeared by all the accounts that we receive to have been somewhat overindulged, and that it was probable that retaining a part of them might only prolong heart burnings and difficulties.
The recent eposé by Governor Douglas of the fact that
the whole of the numerous wivesand
and families of these Engineers
were drawing rations, at an immense cost to the public, whilst
the Governor could not obtain so much as even a list of the recipients,
and whilst the whole value of the labor performed by the Royal
Engineers for the Colony in 1862 was £3,500, will not have
escaped the attention of yourself and the Duke of Newcastle.
The despatch is annexed.
and families of these Engineers
were drawing rations, at an immense cost to the public, whilst
the Governor could not obtain so much as even a list of the recipients,
and whilst the whole value of the labor performed by the Royal
Engineers for the Colony in 1862 was £3,500, will not have
escaped the attention of yourself and the Duke of Newcastle.
The despatch is annexed.
There is also the consideration which I lately mentioned
to you, and to which I think I am right in believing that you
attached some weight, that as all the men were entitled to
their discharge at the end of six years, and five will already
have elapsed, the question becomes onlyone
one of retaining a
portion for a single year.
one of retaining a
portion for a single year.
Looking at all these circumstances, I am anxious to submit
that perhaps the best course will be to let the release of the
Engineers from military service take place Simplicitur, and
without endeavouring to except a portion of the Force. The
orders have, I believe, gone out.
TFE
4 July
CF
6
I agree, though I am sorry to deprive the Colony at once and
altogether of the assistance of this Corps in directing works.
I think something must be done to fill up the void from
home. Has Govr Douglas ever written anything which would guide
us in making such provision? Perhaps however (if the orders are
gone from the W.O.) there may be time to secure a report from him.
N
7
Documents enclosed with the main document (transcribed)
W.F. Forster, Horse Guards, to War Office
Horse Guards
21 May 1863
Sir
With reference to your letters of the 4th & 30th
Ultimo I am directed by the FM Commanding in Chief to
request you will inform the Secretary of State for War that
as HM. Govt have deemed it expedient that the Detacht
of RE &c stated in the margin
which was sent to B Columbia
in the year 1858, to assist in the formation of that Colony,
should now be withdrawn HRH has submitted to the Queen&
& HM has
been pleased to approve that steps be taken for bringing the
services of this Detacht to a close at the end of the
present year & that orders be issued for its return home; such
NC Officers & Men as prefer it, being allowed to take their
discharge receiving grants of Land on the terms specified at
the time of their embarcation for that Colony.
Detachment
Royal Engineers
Colonel (Col Moody)
Captains
Capt J.M. Grant
" R.M. Parsons
" H.R. Luard
Subaltern
(Lieut H.S. Palmer)
9 Sergeants
17 Rank & File
43 Women
29 Children
——-
R. Artillery
1 Sergeant
1 Corporal
1 Woman
3 Children
——-
15 Hussars
1 Sergt have already
1 Corporal returned home
——-
Staff Asst Surgeon
(J. Seddall MD)
Royal Engineers
Colonel (Col Moody)
Captains
Capt J.M. Grant
" R.M. Parsons
" H.R. Luard
Subaltern
(Lieut H.S. Palmer)
9 Sergeants
17 Rank & File
43 Women
29 Children
——-
R. Artillery
1 Sergeant
1 Corporal
1 Woman
3 Children
——-
15 Hussars
1 Sergt have already
1 Corporal returned home
——-
Staff Asst Surgeon
(J. Seddall MD)
& HM has
been pleased to approve that steps be taken for bringing the
services of this Detacht to a close at the end of the
present year & that orders be issued for its return home; such
NC Officers & Men as prefer it, being allowed to take their
discharge receiving grants of Land on the terms specified at
the time of their embarcation for that Colony.
I have to add that measures are in progress to carry out
the above arrangements accordingly.
The Under Secy of State
War Office
War Office
People in this document
Fortescue, 1st Baron Carlingford Chichester
Gosset, Captain William Driscoll
Moody, Colonel Richard Clement
Palmer, Lieutenant Henry Spencer