Colonial Despatches
The colonial despatches of Vancouver Island and British Columbia 1846-1871
Despatch to London
Seymour, Governor Frederick to
Carnarvon, Earl 11 January 1867, CO 60:27, no. 1949, 117.
Abstract
Seymour, Governor Frederick to
Carnarvon, Earl 11 January 1867, CO 60:27, no. 1949, 117.
Despatch to London.
Minutes (8), Enclosures (untranscribed) (12), Other documents (3).
No. 24
11th January 1867
My Lord,
At the request of Mr Joseph Needham I have the honor to
forward a letter which he has addressed to Your Lordship respecting
the effect which the union of the two WesternColonies
Colonies may have had
upon the situation of Chief Justice of the Colony of Vancouver
Island to which he was appointed by Governor Kennedy on the
requisition of a Royal Warrant. Mr Needham encloses several
letters which have passed between him and me on the subject.
Colonies may have had
upon the situation of Chief Justice of the Colony of Vancouver
Island to which he was appointed by Governor Kennedy on the
requisition of a Royal Warrant. Mr Needham encloses several
letters which have passed between him and me on the subject.
2. In connection with Mr Needham's communication I have the
honor to forward a memorandum prepared by Mr Begbie, Judge of the
Supreme Court for Your Lordship's considerationas
as to his own
position under the altered circumstances.
as to his own
position under the altered circumstances.
3. I enclose, further, Copy of a Petition very numerously
signed, presented to me in Victoria and of my reply.
4. These papers will show first, that Mr Needham is of
opinion that the proclamation of the Imperial Act of Parliament
has not in any way affected his position. Which position I
would observe is defined in the Order in Council, two local Acts,
Her Majesty's Warrantand
and Governor Kennedys Commission as "Chief
Justice of the Colony of Vancouver Island." I need not point out
to Your Lordship that no such Colony now exists.
and Governor Kennedys Commission as "Chief
Justice of the Colony of Vancouver Island." I need not point out
to Your Lordship that no such Colony now exists.
5. In the second place will be seen the opinion of Mr
Begbie that the Union Proclamation abolished Mr Needham's
situation. That he, Mr Begbie, is now sole Judge of British
Columbia and best entitled to be created Chief Justice of the
amalgamated Colony.6. Thirdly
6. Thirdly, you will observe that I am of opinion with
Mr Begbie that the effect of the proclamation of Union was,
with the Colony of Vancouver to abolish its Chief Justice. Your
Lordship will find however that I endeavoured to deal justly with
both these Gentlemen. I propose to appoint Mr Needham, a Judge
of the Supreme Court of British Columbia with precedence in the
Courts of the Island of Vancouver. Mr Begbie's position to be
unchanged with the precedence securedto
to him on the Mainland. I
regret to say that this proposal does not satisfy either of these
Gentlemen.
to him on the Mainland. I
regret to say that this proposal does not satisfy either of these
Gentlemen.
7. Mr Needham at the time he wrote to Your Lordship, imagined
that he had a greivance against me as to the manner in which I
communicated to him my opinion as to the effect of the Act of
Parliament. I believe now that he is satisfied with my conduct
to him throughout. I would moreover explain that as it was not in
any way proposedto
to interfere with Mr Needham's duties or emoluments,
I wrote to him in a friendly manner to ask his assistance in
arranging matters so as to carry on the Public Offices in Victoria
until the end of the Year, notwithstanding that Vancouver Island
had been absorbed into British Columbia. I perhaps wrote a little
hurriedly in the press of business while very unwell. If I did so,
I regret it, but subsequent intercourse has quite undone any feeling
of dissatisfaction caused by earlycommunications
communications. There is one
point I regret, and that is to see that the Commission addressed
to Mr Needham was not drafted according to my instructions. I
proposed to appoint him a Judge of the Supreme Court of British
Columbia having precedence in the Courts held in that portion of
the Colony called Vancouver Island.
to interfere with Mr Needham's duties or emoluments,
I wrote to him in a friendly manner to ask his assistance in
arranging matters so as to carry on the Public Offices in Victoria
until the end of the Year, notwithstanding that Vancouver Island
had been absorbed into British Columbia. I perhaps wrote a little
hurriedly in the press of business while very unwell. If I did so,
I regret it, but subsequent intercourse has quite undone any feeling
of dissatisfaction caused by earlycommunications
communications. There is one
point I regret, and that is to see that the Commission addressed
to Mr Needham was not drafted according to my instructions. I
proposed to appoint him a Judge of the Supreme Court of British
Columbia having precedence in the Courts held in that portion of
the Colony called Vancouver Island.
8. The arrangement I proposed to make appeared to me to
be just to the two Officers concerned as well as advantageousto
to
the Colony and I ventured to submit it for Your Lordship's
consideration when I was in England. The distaste with which it
is received by both Mr Needham and Mr Begbie would have rendered
it necessary for me to apply to Your Lordship for instructions had
they not taken the initiative in the appeals I enclose.
to
the Colony and I ventured to submit it for Your Lordship's
consideration when I was in England. The distaste with which it
is received by both Mr Needham and Mr Begbie would have rendered
it necessary for me to apply to Your Lordship for instructions had
they not taken the initiative in the appeals I enclose.
9. Mr Needham proceeds quite free from interruption to hold
his Civil Courts. Shouldhe
he however continue to refuse to accept any
commission from me either as a Judge or a Justice of the Peace, it
will not be without the utmost hesitation that I shall issue to him
a Commission of Oyer & Terminer. There are three cases of Murder
for trial in Victoria.
he however continue to refuse to accept any
commission from me either as a Judge or a Justice of the Peace, it
will not be without the utmost hesitation that I shall issue to him
a Commission of Oyer & Terminer. There are three cases of Murder
for trial in Victoria.
Minutes by CO staff
Mr Elliot
I think Govr Seymour has rather made a mess in the case of Mr Needham & frightened him unnecessarily. Whatever may be the effect of the Law for the annexation of V.C.I. to B.C. on Mr Needham's Office—on which Sir F. Rogers will be the best Authority—I have reason to think that Lord Carnarvon intended & informed Govr S. that the Union of the 2 Colonies should in no measure jeopardize Mr Needham's apptment. Whether Mr Needham should be called "Judge" instead of "Chief Justice," or whether Mr Begbie should be elevated to the rank of a Chief Justice or whether both should be called "Chief Justice" are questions which are mixed up with the present appeal, and which claim consideration. Mr Begbie has certainly done hard work & good service in B.C.
I think Govr Seymour has rather made a mess in the case of Mr Needham & frightened him unnecessarily. Whatever may be the effect of the Law for the annexation of V.C.I. to B.C. on Mr Needham's Office—on which Sir F. Rogers will be the best Authority—I have reason to think that Lord Carnarvon intended & informed Govr S. that the Union of the 2 Colonies should in no measure jeopardize Mr Needham's apptment. Whether Mr Needham should be called "Judge" instead of "Chief Justice," or whether Mr Begbie should be elevated to the rank of a Chief Justice or whether both should be called "Chief Justice" are questions which are mixed up with the present appeal, and which claim consideration. Mr Begbie has certainly done hard work & good service in B.C.
ABd
26 Feb
Sir F. Rogers
I can supply nothing on this beyond what the papers say for themselves. The personal question is difficult to adjust as neither of the two parties is contentedwith
with precedence
in the place where he hitherto has been Chief Justice.
I can supply nothing on this beyond what the papers say for themselves. The personal question is difficult to adjust as neither of the two parties is contentedwith
with precedence
in the place where he hitherto has been Chief Justice.
There is also apparently an uncomfortable question as
to the validity of Mr Needham's position as Judge, since
he has declined the issue of a fresh Commission to him by the Governor.
TFE
26 Feby
Whatever may be the legal effect of the Act of Union in
abolishing the C. Justiceship of V.C.I. it is I shd
think certain that it was not intended to have any such
effect, and that equitably Mr Needham was as much entitled
as Mr Begbie to retain his position unimpaired. On the
other hand I think that while Mr Needham's claims to
equitable consideration shd be fully provided for, he
shd not be allowed to representan
an appointment which is expressly
given during pleasure as being for life & during good behaviour.
an appointment which is expressly
given during pleasure as being for life & during good behaviour.
I think first that Mr Needham's salary could not
properly be reduced nor do I understand that there is any
question of reducing it.
I think the arrangement by which he & Mr Begbie are
to have precedence each in his own Colony, is the best mode
of reconciling their conflicting claims, & should be approved—nor—if
it pleases them should I object to allowing them
both the title anomalous though it wd be of Ch. Justice.
But that on any vacancy in either office, the remaining
Judge should become simply C. Justice & the new appointed simply Puisne.
Judge should become simply C. Justice & the new appointed simply Puisne.
And I think that the best mode of giving effect to this
arrangement wd be by a Local Act, which should declare
the validity of all Judicial Acts of Mr Needham about which
there appeared to be any technical doubt.
This perhaps wd be facilitated by sending out from
this Country a warrant appointing Mr Needham
to be Judge
of the Supreme Court of B. Columbia with the designation of
C.J. of V.C. Island and Mr Begbie to be Judge of the same
Court with the designation of C.J. of the B. Columbian mainland.
to be Judge
of the Supreme Court of B. Columbia with the designation of
C.J. of V.C. Island and Mr Begbie to be Judge of the same
Court with the designation of C.J. of the B. Columbian mainland.
As a general rule I think we have too many Colonial
C. Justices—but here are entangled by what has already passed.
Mr Elliot
We have as yet no official information as to the future relative positions of Judge Begbie—B. Columbia, and Mr Needham—the Chief Justice of Van Couver Island, but I believe it is Govr Seymour's intention to send home a report on the subject by the next mail. In the mean time the annexed printed reply to a Petition which the Governor had received in behalf of Mr Needham
indicates the course he
proposes to take. The Salaries of both are the same—£1200.
We have as yet no official information as to the future relative positions of Judge Begbie—B. Columbia, and Mr Needham—the Chief Justice of Van Couver Island, but I believe it is Govr Seymour's intention to send home a report on the subject by the next mail. In the mean time the annexed printed reply to a Petition which the Governor had received in behalf of Mr Needham
indicates the course he
proposes to take. The Salaries of both are the same—£1200.
With regard to Judge Begbie's statement that his
"promotion to be Chief Justice was most unmistakeably promised"
by Sir Ed: Lytton in Aug. 1857 (he means 1858) the following
passage occurs in a Despatch dated 14th of Aug. 1858:
I shall send you at the earliest moment an Officer authorized
to act as Judge
and who I trust as the Colony increases in
importance may be found competent to fill with credit and
weight the situation of Chief Justice.
and who I trust as the Colony increases in
importance may be found competent to fill with credit and
weight the situation of Chief Justice.
VJ
18 Feby 67
I think that we may tell the Attorney General in a
private letter that no official report has yet been received
about the arrangement of the Office of Chief Justice in B.
Columbia, but that by a report in the newspapers it appears
that the Governor had proposed that Mr Justice Begbieshould
should
retain his precedence in the Courts on the Mainland and Mr
Justice Needham his precedence in the Courts in Vancouver
Island. This proposal, it seems, had not proved satisfactory
and it may be expected that before long the Governor will
make some report on the subject.
should
retain his precedence in the Courts on the Mainland and Mr
Justice Needham his precedence in the Courts in Vancouver
Island. This proposal, it seems, had not proved satisfactory
and it may be expected that before long the Governor will
make some report on the subject.
It might be as well at the same time to ask Governor
Seymour to report his views on the best arrangement to be made.
Yes—but I shd be sorry to alter Mr Seymour's discretion
at all in these appointments. Care shd be taken on that head.
C
23/2
Documents enclosed with the main document (not transcribed)
Needham to Carnarvon, 29 November 1866, disputing his removal
as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Vancouver Island, with
explanation and enclosures
Seymour to Needham, 17 November 1866, defining his role in the
newly united colony and forwarding authorization to continue as judge
of the Supreme Court with precedence in cases on Vancouver Island.
Seymour to Needham, 21 November 1866, acknowledging return of
commission appointing him judge of the Supreme Court with precedence
in Vancouver Island.
Commission appointing Needham to act as judge of the Supreme
Court in Vancouver Island until 31 December 1866.
M.B. Begbie to Seymour, 7 January 1867, forwarding memorandum
for the attention of the Secretary of State.
Newspaper clipping, unnamed, no date, Seymour's response to the
petition as noted above.
Other documents included in the file
