Colonial Despatches
The colonial despatches of Vancouver Island and British Columbia 1846-1871
Public Offices document
Kelly and Cairns to Merivale, Herman 19 June 1858, CO 305:9, no. 6012, 350.
Abstract
Public Offices document.
Minutes (3), Marginalia (1).
Kelly and Cairns offer their advice regarding the CO’s concerns with the impending land transfer of
Vancouver Island from HBC to the Crown. Their opinion was that the government should compensate the
HBC only the “sums laid out by [the HBC] upon the Island and premises” and the “value
of their Establishments property and effects being thereon.”
The minutes deem it “proper” to “carefully” point out the distinction and “stating
what is the portion of the claim to which HM’s Govt are ready [...] to accede.” They
are still unsure what calculations provide the suggested sums but see it as “politic
not to press for [their] extreme rights” given the “very complicated” relationship
between the government and the HBC.
Temple
June 17th 1858
Sir
We were favored with your Letter of the 31st May ultimo
in
which you stated that you were directed by Lord Stanley to send
us copies of two letters addressed by the Directors of the
Hudson's Bay Company accompanied by Accounts shewing the Amount
to be reimbursed to the Company by Her Majestys Government on
the transfer of Vancouver's Island to the Crown, so far as could
be at present ascertained; together with Copy of a letter
addressed by direction of Mr Secretary Labouchere to theGovernor
Governor and Company, informing them of the intention of Her
Majesty's Government to require this transfer; and of a Report
with which Lord Stanley had been furnished by the Land and
Emigration Commissioners on the subject of these accounts.
Land Bd 3854 [VJ].
Governor and Company, informing them of the intention of Her
Majesty's Government to require this transfer; and of a Report
with which Lord Stanley had been furnished by the Land and
Emigration Commissioners on the subject of these accounts.
That the Company were in possession of exclusive trade with the
Indians of the North West parts of North America (which might be
regarded as embracing Vancouver's Island) under the Crown Grant
of 30th May 1838, of which a Copy was also annexed.
That they were in possession of the land of Vancouver's Island
under the grant of 13th January 1849 of which a copy was also
annexed and [....]
That In repurchasing the Island of the Company under theprovisions
provisions contained in the last Clause of that Grant the Crown
would become bound to repay them the sums theretofore laid out
and expended by them on the Island, and "the value of their
establishments, property and effects then being thereon."
provisions contained in the last Clause of that Grant the Crown
would become bound to repay them the sums theretofore laid out
and expended by them on the Island, and "the value of their
establishments, property and effects then being thereon."
You were also pleased to say that, it would be observed from the
Report of the Land and Emigration Commissioners that those
"Establishments and property", were of two Kinds: a portion
having been erected and got together in consequence of and in
relation to, their Commerical operations as a Company carrying on
trade with the Indians under their license; a portion erected and
got together in consequence of their territorial possession of
the Soil, and to facilitate the settlement and government of the
Island.
You were also pleased to addthat
that you were directed to request
that we would report for the guidance of Lord Stanley, our
Opinion, whether the Obligation on Her Majesty's Government to
compensate the Company, "if the Crown repurchase the Island,
extends to both these classes of Establishments and property" or
to "the latter only?["]
that you were directed to request
that we would report for the guidance of Lord Stanley, our
Opinion, whether the Obligation on Her Majesty's Government to
compensate the Company, "if the Crown repurchase the Island,
extends to both these classes of Establishments and property" or
to "the latter only?["]
In Obedience to his Lordships Command, we have perused the
documents submitted to us and have the honor to Report
That we are of Opinion that according to the proper and fair
construction of the Royal grant of 13th of January 1849 the
obligation on Her Majesty's Government to Compensate the Company
if the Crown repurchase Vancouver's Island, extends only to sums
laid out by them upon the Island and premises as ownersthereof
thereof,
and to the value of their Establishments property and effects
being thereon and connected with such ownership, which are
substantially the Classes of Establishment and property
mentioned last in Mr Merivales letter.
thereof,
and to the value of their Establishments property and effects
being thereon and connected with such ownership, which are
substantially the Classes of Establishment and property
mentioned last in Mr Merivales letter.
Herman Merivale Esqre.
&c &c &c
&c &c &c
Minutes by CO staff
Lord Carnarvon
You have paid much attention to this subject. It seems to me that it will now be proper to answer the HB Co's letter 1987, by carefully pointing out the distinction, & stating what is the portion of the claim to which HM's Govt are
ready (subject of
course to investigation of items which might be conducted by
the Treasury or by the Ld & Emn Commissioners) to accede.
You have paid much attention to this subject. It seems to me that it will now be proper to answer the HB Co's letter 1987, by carefully pointing out the distinction, & stating what is the portion of the claim to which HM's Govt are
ready (subject of
course to investigation of items which might be conducted by
the Treasury or by the Ld & Emn Commissioners) to accede.
HM
June 22
Mr Merivale
The Emigr. Commissrs state that the alternative payments to the H.B.C. are £225,000 and £34,000: according as it is decided whether or no the Company shall be removed from the Island.
The Emigr. Commissrs state that the alternative payments to the H.B.C. are £225,000 and £34,000: according as it is decided whether or no the Company shall be removed from the Island.
I conclude of course that from what has already passed on the
subject that the Company will be allowed to remain on the island
in possession of their private property but that all exclusive
privileges will be cancelled.
In this case the £34,000 is about the sum wh they will claim
for Compensation. I do not know the calculations by wh the
Commissrs arrived at this sum. Probably they limited it
strictly to expenses of a purely administrative kind. If so
there can be no objection, but if they admitted
many of the
"cross-divisions" wh it seems the H.B.C. have introduced into
the accounts to me & wh I pointed out in my previous minute may
we not be led into allowing a charge wh, though far less than
that wh was at first presented, may yet be unnecessarily high?
many of the
"cross-divisions" wh it seems the H.B.C. have introduced into
the accounts to me & wh I pointed out in my previous minute may
we not be led into allowing a charge wh, though far less than
that wh was at first presented, may yet be unnecessarily high?
Do you see any objection to guarding ourselves on this and such
like points in Our letter to the H.B.C. independantly
of requiring a verification of the several charges?
Even if we subsequently consent to allow a charge for
compensation somewhat larger than in strictness it ought to
be—and with the very complicated relationship between the Govt
and the H.B.C. it is possible that it will be politic not to
press for our extreme rights—no harm will be done by showing
the H.B.C. that we are conscious of the strong points in our own
case? It gives us at all events better ground for negotiation.
C
June 23