Colonial Despatches
The colonial despatches of Vancouver Island and British Columbia 1846-1871
Despatch to London
Douglas, Sir James to Pelham-Clinton, 5th Duke of Newcastle Henry Pelham Fiennes 31 May 1862, CO 305:19, no. 7227, 182.
Abstract
Douglas, Sir James to Pelham-Clinton, 5th Duke of Newcastle Henry Pelham Fiennes 31 May 1862, CO 305:19, no. 7227, 182.
Despatch to London.
Minutes (12), Other documents (3), Marginalia (1).
No. 31
31 May 1862
I would desire to address Your Grace upon the subject of the
Constitution of the Council established for Vancouver Island under
Her Majesty's Commission and Instructions addressed to me as Governor
of the Colony.
2. At the time thatCouncil
Council was constituted the circumstances of the
Colony differed materially from those of the present day. Then there
were no principal Executive Officers attached to the Government, and
the Council was necessarily entirely composed of private individuals
holding no office under the Government. Now however, I have around
me certain principal officers of the Government who should, ex
officio, form a distinct Executive Council. I havehowever
however, no
power to constitute them such, and were I to place them in the sole
Council authorized by my Instructions, it would, the Chief Justice
already being a Member of that Council, reduce the unofficial members
to two, and the people would then have just cause of complaint that
their interests were inadequately represented in the Upper
Legislative Body by unofficial members.
Council was constituted the circumstances of the
Colony differed materially from those of the present day. Then there
were no principal Executive Officers attached to the Government, and
the Council was necessarily entirely composed of private individuals
holding no office under the Government. Now however, I have around
me certain principal officers of the Government who should, ex
officio, form a distinct Executive Council. I havehowever
however, no
power to constitute them such, and were I to place them in the sole
Council authorized by my Instructions, it would, the Chief Justice
already being a Member of that Council, reduce the unofficial members
to two, and the people would then have just cause of complaint that
their interests were inadequately represented in the Upper
Legislative Body by unofficial members.
3. I would therefore submit to Your Grace that the time has arrived
when in thisColony
Colony, two Councils should be formed, an Executive, and
a Legislative. The Executive to consist of the undermentioned
officers,
Colony, two Councils should be formed, an Executive, and
a Legislative. The Executive to consist of the undermentioned
officers,
The Colonial Secretary,
The Attorney General,
The Treasurer,
The Surveyor General,
The Legislative to consist of seven members as at present, with not less than three unofficial members. The members of the Executive Council, if not in the House of Assembly as Representatives of the people,to
to be eligible for
appointment to the Legislative Council. The official members of the
Legislative Council to take precedency of the unofficial members,
and the two classes amongst themselves to take precedency in the
Council, the official according to the Colonial rank of their office,
the unofficial according to seniority of appointment.
The Legislative to consist of seven members as at present, with not less than three unofficial members. The members of the Executive Council, if not in the House of Assembly as Representatives of the people,to
to be eligible for
appointment to the Legislative Council. The official members of the
Legislative Council to take precedency of the unofficial members,
and the two classes amongst themselves to take precedency in the
Council, the official according to the Colonial rank of their office,
the unofficial according to seniority of appointment.
4. I believe what I here propose is strictly according to the
practice followed in other Coloniessimilarly
similarly circumstanced to
Vancouver Island at the present time, and I therefore apprehend the
propriety of the arrangement will be so patent to Your Grace, that it
is unnecessary for me to dwell upon it at great length.
similarly circumstanced to
Vancouver Island at the present time, and I therefore apprehend the
propriety of the arrangement will be so patent to Your Grace, that it
is unnecessary for me to dwell upon it at great length.
Minutes by CO staff
Mr Elliot
I am of opinion that it would conduce to the satisfaction of the public, and probably be convenient to Governor Douglas himself, if an Executive Council were created in V. Couver Island. When the 1st Govr of this Colony was appointed there existed no materials for such a Body. The elements for an Ex. Council are now ample.
I am of opinion that it would conduce to the satisfaction of the public, and probably be convenient to Governor Douglas himself, if an Executive Council were created in V. Couver Island. When the 1st Govr of this Colony was appointed there existed no materials for such a Body. The elements for an Ex. Council are now ample.
ABd
25 July
Duke of Newcastle
Although the machinery of government & legislation in V.Isd. is ludicrously complex for such a miniature community, I suppose the change proposed by Govr Douglas may as well be made.
Although the machinery of government & legislation in V.Isd. is ludicrously complex for such a miniature community, I suppose the change proposed by Govr Douglas may as well be made.
CF
25
Mr Fortescue
I agree. Mr Gairdner would consider (if the Duke of Newcastle concurred as to the principle of constituting an Exe Council,) by what form of instrument this should be done; and wd suggest any alteration of detail wh mt be recommended by the analogy of other Colonies. I myself see (as at present advised) nothing to change in Gov. Douglas' suggestions.
I agree. Mr Gairdner would consider (if the Duke of Newcastle concurred as to the principle of constituting an Exe Council,) by what form of instrument this should be done; and wd suggest any alteration of detail wh mt be recommended by the analogy of other Colonies. I myself see (as at present advised) nothing to change in Gov. Douglas' suggestions.
FR
25/7
I shall be glad that the proposed reference to Mr Gairdner should be
made, but I wish no further steps to be taken till I have fully
considered the future Govts of V.Id & B. Columbia, which I propose
to do as soon as this Session is over.
N
28
Sir F. Rogers
The best form of Instrument which I can suggest, for establishing an Executive and Legislative Council at Vancouver Island instead of the one Council, is that which was used for a similar purpose in the Bahamas in the year 1841. I suppose that with some modification the general plan may be a[d]opted [marginal note: Yes. FR]. You will find them marked in the accompanying Volume. Perhaps you would look
at them, and if you think that the plan would answer
generally I will prepare the drafts and have them ready for
consideration at the future period proposed in the Duke of
Newcastle's Minute. I believe that new Letters Patent will be
necessary, because the existing Letters Patent in Commission provide
distinctly for one Council and it will be necessary to have an
Instrument of equal force to create two Councils, as
proposed,
instead of one.
The best form of Instrument which I can suggest, for establishing an Executive and Legislative Council at Vancouver Island instead of the one Council, is that which was used for a similar purpose in the Bahamas in the year 1841. I suppose that with some modification the general plan may be a[d]opted [marginal note: Yes. FR]. You will find them marked in the accompanying Volume. Perhaps you would look
at them, and if you think that the plan would answer
generally I will prepare the drafts and have them ready for
consideration at the future period proposed in the Duke of
Newcastle's Minute. I believe that new Letters Patent will be
necessary, because the existing Letters Patent in Commission provide
distinctly for one Council and it will be necessary to have an
Instrument of equal force to create two Councils, as
proposed,
instead of one.
2. You will perceive that in the Bahamas case two Additional
Instructions were prepared at the same time, the one for creating
the Executive Council and the other for creating the Legislative
Body. I cannot perceive the use of this two fold machinery [marginal
note: Nor I. FR], and should conceive that the two Instruments had
better be run into one [marginal note: Yes. FR].
3. Governor Douglas's Commission and Instructions follow the plan of
the Instruments prepared for his Predecessor in 1849 and are of an
old form, but I suppose that it would be best to let them alone for
the present [marginal note: Yes. FR] and simply to make the
necessary provision for the constitution of the two Councils in the
manner proposed.
follow the plan of
the Instruments prepared for his Predecessor in 1849 and are of an
old form, but I suppose that it would be best to let them alone for
the present [marginal note: Yes. FR] and simply to make the
necessary provision for the constitution of the two Councils in the
manner proposed.
GG
1/8/62
1;7 Aug to Sir F. Rogers
I send you with this minute which you had already seen the drafts of
additional Letters Patent & Instructions for creating an Executive &
a Legislative Council in Vancouver Island: and I call your attention
by Marginal Notes to any points which appear to me to require
attention.
Mr Engleheart
As I understand that the Duke of Newcastle has at present under consideration the question of the form of Government of Vancouver Island & B Columbia it will probably be desirable that his Grace should consider with them the Governor's Dispatch No 31 of the 31st May 1862 7227 and the Minutes and drafts connected with it relative to the Creation of an Executive and a Legislative Council, instead of one body as at present existing. I should at
the same time point out
that in the Minute on that Dispatch his Grace desired that the
question should be considered if adopting the Governor's suggestion
for the establishment of the two distinct Councils, but proposed that
nothing final should be done until he had fully considered the future
Governments of Vancouver Island & B. Columbia which he proposed to do
as soon as the Session of Parlt was over. The drafts of a
supplementary Commission & Instructions were accordingly prepared
with a good deal of [ease?]
& approved by Sir F. Rogers & Mr Fortescue, but unfortunately they
were rather prematurely advanced, but the
Patent is not (as I am
informed) completed. If any alteration should be required it could
still be made, but probably that will not be the case. In the
mean time it would appear desirable that his Grace should have the
drafts of the Instruments before him in considering the general
question which I understand is now before him.
As I understand that the Duke of Newcastle has at present under consideration the question of the form of Government of Vancouver Island & B Columbia it will probably be desirable that his Grace should consider with them the Governor's Dispatch No 31 of the 31st May 1862 7227 and the Minutes and drafts connected with it relative to the Creation of an Executive and a Legislative Council, instead of one body as at present existing. I should at
the same time point out
that in the Minute on that Dispatch his Grace desired that the
question should be considered if adopting the Governor's suggestion
for the establishment of the two distinct Councils, but proposed that
nothing final should be done until he had fully considered the future
Governments of Vancouver Island & B. Columbia which he proposed to do
as soon as the Session of Parlt was over. The drafts of a
supplementary Commission & Instructions were accordingly prepared
with a good deal of [ease?]
& approved by Sir F. Rogers & Mr Fortescue, but unfortunately they
were rather prematurely advanced, but the
Patent is not (as I am
informed) completed. If any alteration should be required it could
still be made, but probably that will not be the case. In the
mean time it would appear desirable that his Grace should have the
drafts of the Instruments before him in considering the general
question which I understand is now before him.
GG
12 Octr/62
Sir F. Rogers
I wish to call your attention to a supplementary Commission and Instructions which were issued bearing date the 8 Octr last for altering the Constitution of the Council at Vancouver Island.
I wish to call your attention to a supplementary Commission and Instructions which were issued bearing date the 8 Octr last for altering the Constitution of the Council at Vancouver Island.
The Council, as originally constituted and as it at present stands,
is of the form of the old West India Council, a form often adopted in
new Colonies, consisting of one body which have power of passing
Laws, but when summoned, meet as the Governor's advising Council.
Govr Douglas suggested
that the principle should be altered, and
that the Body should be broken into two Councils, an Executive and a
Legislative. The recommendation was approved and the Duke of
Newcastle's Minutes directed that the Instruments should be prepared,
but not completed until he
should have finally considered the alterations which were
contemplated in the whole constitution of these two Settlements.
Unfortunately when the drafts of the Instruments had been settled,
the direction for the
suspension of their further progress was
forgotten, and was not adverted to until it was too late. The
Commission & Instrucitons passed the Council office, and the former
Instrument received the Great Seal.
that the principle should be altered, and
that the Body should be broken into two Councils, an Executive and a
Legislative. The recommendation was approved and the Duke of
Newcastle's Minutes directed that the Instruments should be prepared,
but not completed until he
should have finally considered the alterations which were
contemplated in the whole constitution of these two Settlements.
Unfortunately when the drafts of the Instruments had been settled,
the direction for the
suspension of their further progress was
forgotten, and was not adverted to until it was too late. The
Commission & Instrucitons passed the Council office, and the former
Instrument received the Great Seal.
I called attention to the circumstance in a Minute when all the
papers on the subject of the Constitution were forwarded to his
Grace: but I also now bring it under your notice. I am not aware
that any practical
difficulty would result from keeping back these
Instruments. The Council goes on in the mean time with very much the
same powers which are conveyed by the new Instruments to the two
separate Bodies, except that the duties of the Executive Council in
particular are now more distinctly defined; at the same time it would
of course be more regular to give them their natural action: and I
suppose that the establishment of these two Councils would not
interfere with any further movement
as it is all in the way of
progress. If I correctly read the meaning of the Act 9 & 10 Vic Cap
91. for defining the date at which new Commissions shall come into
effect in distant Countries this supplementary Commission can be
brought into effect if exhibited in Vancouver Island at any time
within 9 months from its date [marginal note: 8 Octr 1862], and if not so exhibited within that period it would
cease to have effect.
difficulty would result from keeping back these
Instruments. The Council goes on in the mean time with very much the
same powers which are conveyed by the new Instruments to the two
separate Bodies, except that the duties of the Executive Council in
particular are now more distinctly defined; at the same time it would
of course be more regular to give them their natural action: and I
suppose that the establishment of these two Councils would not
interfere with any further movement
as it is all in the way of
progress. If I correctly read the meaning of the Act 9 & 10 Vic Cap
91. for defining the date at which new Commissions shall come into
effect in distant Countries this supplementary Commission can be
brought into effect if exhibited in Vancouver Island at any time
within 9 months from its date [marginal note: 8 Octr 1862], and if not so exhibited within that period it would
cease to have effect.
This is not I think exactly the effect of the Act. But no doubt this
document shd reach the colony before the 8th of July.
GG
27/1/63
Duke of Newcastle
I shd be inclined to send out the Instruments. They are calculated to effect a convenience as far as they go & will not interfere with any thing else.
I shd be inclined to send out the Instruments. They are calculated to effect a convenience as far as they go & will not interfere with any thing else.
Duke of Newcastle
These papers have come to me with the B Columbia Constitution papers
with wh they have a certain amount of connection. But looking to
the nature of GG's minute, it appears to me that these may take
their course without waiting for the decision of the larger question.
These papers have come to me with the B Columbia Constitution papers
with wh they have a certain amount of connection. But looking to
the nature of GG's minute, it appears to me that these may take
their course without waiting for the decision of the larger question.
Keeping this instrument back may cause inconvenience, wh sending
it can hardly do.
FR
8/4
Let it proceed.
N
10
Other documents included in the file
Newcastle to "Mr Attorney General or Mr Solicitor General," 17 September 1862, transmitting a draft of the supplementary commission
for the preparation of a warrant for letters patent.
Minutes by CO staff
Sir F. Rogers
I have prepared this short covering dispatch for the transmission of the supplementary Commission and Instructions creating two distinct Councils at Vancouvers Island. You will perhaps consider whether the draft is properly framed; [and?] when the Instruments have been dispatched, I suppose that the papers should be returned to the Duke of Newcastle for the consideration of the more general question involved.
I have prepared this short covering dispatch for the transmission of the supplementary Commission and Instructions creating two distinct Councils at Vancouvers Island. You will perhaps consider whether the draft is properly framed; [and?] when the Instruments have been dispatched, I suppose that the papers should be returned to the Duke of Newcastle for the consideration of the more general question involved.