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<fileDesc><titleStmt><title><name>[Sender not known.]</name> to <persName ref="prs:merivale_h"><surname>Merivale</surname>, <forename>Herman</forename></persName> 7 May 1859, CO 305:12, no. 4720, 123.</title>
<author><orgName>Murdoch and Rogers</orgName></author>
<respStmt><resp>addressee</resp>
<persName ref="prs:merivale_h">Merivale (Permanent Under-Secretary)</persName>
</respStmt>
</titleStmt>
<publicationStmt><p>Published by Jim Hendrickson and the University of Victoria.</p>
</publicationStmt><notesStmt><note xml:id="V595LN04_citation"><bibl><name>[Sender not known.]</name> to <persName ref="prs:merivale_h"><surname>Merivale</surname>, <forename>Herman</forename></persName> 7 May 1859, CO 305:12, no. 4720, 123.<title level="m">The Colonial Despatches of Vancouver Island and British Columbia 1846-1871</title>, Edition 2.6, ed. James Hendrickson and the Colonial Despatches project. Victoria, B.C.: University of Victoria. <ref target="V595LN04.html">https://bcgenesis.uvic.ca/V595LN04.html</ref>.
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<idno type="coNumber">305</idno>
<idno type="coVol">12</idno>
<idno type="coRegistration">4720</idno>
<idno type="page">123</idno>
<series>V.I.</series>
<date when="1859-05-07" type="sent">1859</date>
<date type="received" when="1859-05-09">received 9 May</date>
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<profileDesc><abstract><p>Public Offices document. 
                Minutes (7), Other documents (2).</p>


<p><persName ref="prs:murdoch_twc">Murdoch</persName> and <persName ref="prs:rogers_f">Rogers</persName> respond to <persName ref="prs:merivale_h">Merivale</persName> regarding the Hudson’s Bay Company’s request for reimbursement for expenses incurred in searching for coal at <placeName ref="plc:fort_rupert">Fort Rupert</placeName>, and judge that the request should be denied since the company’s intentions seem commercial rather than colonial.</p>
<p>The minutes agree to <q>submit this difference</q> to the arbitration of either Lord Wensleydale, <persName ref="prs:coleridge">Sir John Taylor Coleridge</persName>, or Sir J Pattison.</p>
<p>Included in the document is <persName ref="prs:coleridge">Coleridge</persName> to <persName ref="prs:merivale_h">Merivale</persName>, <date when="1859-06-24">24 June 1859</date>, expressing his willingness to do what he can; and a draft from <persName ref="prs:fortescue">Fortescue</persName> to the <orgName ref="org:hbc">HBC</orgName>, <date when="1859-07-01">1 July 1859</date>, stating that while <persName ref="prs:newcastle">Newcastle</persName> cannot concur with their claim, he is willing to submit the question to an <q>impartial advisor.</q></p>

</abstract><correspDesc>
<correspAction type="sent">
<name>[Sender not known.]</name><address><addrLine>
Emigration Office
</addrLine><addrLine>
Judicial Committee
</addrLine></address>
<date when="1859-05-07"/>
</correspAction>
<correspAction type="received">
<persName ref="prs:merivale_h"><surname>Merivale</surname>, <forename>Herman</forename></persName>
<date when="1859-05-09"/></correspAction></correspDesc></profileDesc>

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<text><body><div type="public_offices">
<head>
<persName ref="prs:murdoch_twc">Murdoch</persName> and <persName ref="prs:rogers_f">Rogers</persName> to <persName ref="prs:merivale_h">Merivale</persName> (Permanent Under-Secretary)
</head>
<opener><ref type="co_ref">4720, CO 305/12, p. 123; received 9 May
</ref>
<address><addrLine>
Emigration Office
</addrLine>
</address>
<date when="1859-05-07">7 May 1859</date>
</opener>
<p>
We have to acknowledge your letter of <date when="1859-04-28">28<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">th</hi> ultimo</date>, enclosing a further
letter from the <orgName ref="org:hbc">Hudson's Bay Company</orgName> on the subject of their claim to
be reimbursed the expenses incurred in searching for Coal at <placeName ref="plc:fort_rupert">Fort Rupert</placeName> in <placeName ref="plc:vancouver_island">Vancouvers Island</placeName>.
</p>
<p>
2. In our Report of <date when="1859-03-26">26<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">th</hi> March last</date> we pointed out, that this
claim must depend upon the question whether, if this mine had
succeeded, it was the intention of <fw type="catchword" style="text-align: right;">the</fw><pb facs="co_305_12/co_305_12_00126v.jpg"/>the Company to sell or Lease it to
themselves, or in any way to hold or work it for their own
advantage—or whether the proceeds would have been carried to the
public Revenue, the Company receiving no more than the percentage
allowed them by the Grant of <date when="1849-01-19">19<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">th</hi> January 1849</date>. This question
having been put to the Company they reply, that they cannot bring
evidence of an intention to carry the proceeds of the mine to the
public account because as no proceeds were ever accrued the question
never arose, nor do they explicitly state that any such intention
existed. But they allege that the <fw type="catchword" style="text-align: right;">search</fw><pb facs="co_305_12/co_305_12_00127r.jpg"/>search for coal was undertaken as
a means of promoting Colonization—that it had the effect of adding a
number of Miners and other Emigrants to the population—and,
therefore, that if they have no strictly legal right, they have an
equitable claim to the liberal consideration of H.M. Government.
They add that the Coal Mine at <placeName ref="plc:nanaimo">Nanaimo</placeName> has hitherto been
unremunerative.
</p>
<p>
3. The claim then being abandoned as a matter of right it only
remains to be considered whether there are sufficient grounds in
equity to require or justify its admission.
This as it appears to us, must depend on the question <fw type="catchword" style="text-align: right;">whether</fw><pb facs="co_305_12/co_305_12_00127v.jpg"/>whether the
Company were bound in their capacity of owners and Governors of the
Colony to find employment for Emigrants after their arrival in the
Colony, and whether it was judicious to send out a class of Laborers
for whom employment at their own occupation could be found only upon
works undertaken by the Company. It appears to us that the answer to
this question must be in the negative. The object of the Crown in
handing over the colonization of <placeName ref="plc:vancouver_island">Van Couvers Island</placeName> to the Company
was that it should be settled by a self supporting population, and
the Company acting for the Crown were <fw type="catchword" style="text-align: right;">bound</fw><pb facs="co_305_12/co_305_12_00128r.jpg"/>bound to regulate their
selection of immigrants with reference to that object. If, as
appears to have been the case, they introduced immigrants of a
particular class and fitted only for a special description of labor,
which they alone could provide, it must be inferred that they did so
with a view to their operations as a Commerical Company, not to their
obligations as Colonizers and owners of <placeName ref="plc:vancouver_island">the Island</placeName>. And considering
that they had already an unremunerative Coal Mine at <placeName ref="plc:nanaimo">Nanaimo</placeName> and that
there was no reasonable prospect of any immediate increase in <fw type="catchword" style="text-align: right;">the</fw><pb facs="co_305_12/co_305_12_00128v.jpg"/>the
demand for Coal we can hardly think that the introduction of so large
a number of Miners was judicious.
</p>
<p>
4. Upon the whole, therefore, we are compelled to express our
opinion that the <orgName ref="org:hbc">Hudsons Bay Company</orgName> are not entitled in equity to be
repaid the amount claimed on account of the works at <placeName ref="plc:fort_rupert">Fort Rupert</placeName>.
</p>
<closer>
We have etc.
<lb/>
<persName ref="prs:murdoch_twc">T.W.C. Murdoch</persName>
<lb/>
<persName ref="prs:rogers_f">Frederic Rogers</persName>
<lb/>
</closer>
<!-- ..cm =================================================================== -->
</div>
<div type="minutes">
<div type="minute_entry"><pb facs="co_305_12/co_305_12_00128v.jpg"/>
<ab><hi style="text-decoration: underline;"><persName ref="prs:carnarvon">Lord Carnarvon</persName></hi><lb/>
</ab>
<closer><signed><persName ref="prs:elliot_tf">TFE</persName>
<date when="1859-05-13">
13 May
</date>
</signed>
</closer>
</div>
<div type="minute_entry">
<ab>
<persName ref="prs:merivale_h">M<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">r</hi> Merivale</persName><lb/>
This paper was kept back whilst you were abroad as I was anxious to
have <pb facs="co_305_12/co_305_12_00129r.jpg"/>your opinion before any decision s<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">d</hi> be come to on it. Will you
consider it.
</ab>
<closer><signed><persName ref="prs:carnarvon">C</persName>
<date when="1859-06-08">
June 8
</date>
</signed>
</closer>
</div>
<div type="minute_entry">
<ab>
<persName ref="prs:carnarvon">Lord Carnarvon</persName><lb/>
It is rather a nice point in my opinion: if to be decided by us, I
should agree with the Commissioners. The only question which occurs
to me as one of justice is, whether it would not be fair to the
Company to submit this difference (which lies within a very [landed?]
<!-- .cm 126 -->
compass) to the arbitration of any man of business who might be fixed
on. I should think that L<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">d</hi> Wensleydale, <persName ref="prs:coleridge">Sir John Coleridge</persName>, or any
other retired judge, would undertake this as a little piece of public
duty.
</ab>
<closer><signed><persName ref="prs:merivale_h">HM</persName>
<date when="1859-06-10">
June 10
</date>
</signed>
</closer>
</div>
<div type="minute_entry">
<ab>
I quite agree in this suggestion <choice><abbr>w<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">h</hi></abbr><expan>which</expan></choice> considering the present
relations of this Office to the H.B.C. will be I think <pb facs="co_305_12/co_305_12_00129v.jpg"/>the most
satisfactory method of dealing with the case as regards all parties.
If necessary I can see Lord Wensleydale—who <choice><abbr>w<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">d</hi></abbr><expan>would</expan></choice> be a very good
arbiter—&amp; propose the task to him. It need not give much trouble.
</ab>
<closer><signed><persName ref="prs:carnarvon">C</persName>
<date when="1859-06-10">
June 10
</date>
</signed>
</closer>
</div>
<div type="minute_entry">
<ab>
<persName ref="prs:carnarvon">L<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">d</hi> Carnarvon</persName><lb/>
The first step I think would be to ascertain whether L<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">d</hi> Wensleydale—Sir J Pattison if in town—or <persName ref="prs:coleridge">Sir J Coleridge</persName>, who is in town—all
excellent arbitrators on such a subject—would have the kindness to
take it in hand: premising
that the public instruments and correspondence
<hi style="text-decoration: underline;">only</hi> will be submitted to the arbiter, unless he should call for
more information himself.
<!-- .cm 127 -->
</ab>
<p>
If either of them [kindly?] agrees, then write officially to the
H B Co. proposing this solution.
</p>
<p>
If L<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">d</hi> W. perhaps you will see him or write to him. If Sir J.C.
I would undertake it if you wish.
</p>
<closer><signed><persName ref="prs:merivale_h">HM</persName>
<date when="1859-06-11">
June 11
</date>
</signed>
</closer>
</div>
<div type="minute_entry">
<ab>
Perhaps under present circumstances the question s<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">d</hi> stand over for
the decision of our Successor.
<!-- .cm An ed. note will perhaps be required here to explain successor -->
</ab>
<closer><signed><persName ref="prs:carnarvon">C</persName>
<date when="1859-06-13">
June 13
</date>
</signed>
</closer>
</div>
<div type="minute_entry">
<ab>
My own opinion concurs with that of the Em<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">n</hi> Com<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">rs</hi> but I think <persName ref="prs:merivale_h">M<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">r</hi>
Merivale</persName>'s suggestion (especially in existing circumstances) a very
fair one and entirely approve of its adoption.
</ab>
<p>
[One sentence cut off file].
</p>
<closer><signed><persName ref="prs:newcastle">[N]</persName>
</signed>
</closer>
<!-- ..cm =================================================================== -->
</div>
</div>
<div type="other_files">
<div type="other_entry"><pb facs="co_305_12/co_305_12_00130r.jpg"/>
<ab><address><addrLine>
Judicial Committee
</addrLine>
</address>
<date when="1859-06-24">June 24, 1859</date>
<lb/>
My dear <persName ref="prs:merivale_h">Merivale</persName>
</ab>
<p>
I have left a letter I wrote to you at home. I will only say
now shortly, that if I can be of any use, I shall be very glad to do
what I can—only remember the Sanctity of the Long Vacation &amp; don't
force me up to <placeName ref="plc:london">London</placeName> lightly during it—especially as when John &amp;
family leave <placeName ref="plc:london">London</placeName>, I shall have no home to resort to.
</p>
<p>
I do not think the Judicial Committee can interfere with me in
this matter, as I need not sit if it ever came here.
<!-- .cm 128 -->
</p>
<closer>
Yours very truly
<lb/>
<persName ref="prs:coleridge">J.T. Coleridge</persName>
<lb/>
</closer>
</div>
<div type="other_entry"><pb facs="co_305_12/co_305_12_00132r.jpg"/>
<ab>
Draft,
<persName ref="prs:fortescue">Fortescue</persName> to <persName ref="prs:berens_hh">H. Behrens [Berens]</persName>, <orgName ref="org:hbc">Hudson's Bay Company</orgName>, <date when="1859-07-01">1 July 1859</date>,
suggesting the company's claim in respect of the <placeName ref="plc:fort_rupert">Fort Rupert</placeName>
coal mine might be submitted to an "impartial adviser."
</ab>
</div>
</div></body>
</text>
</TEI>