<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<?xml-model href="../schemas/coldesp.rng" type="application/xml" schematypens="http://relaxng.org/ns/structure/1.0"?>
<?xml-model href="../schemas/coldesp.rng" type="application/xml" schematypens="http://purl.oclc.org/dsdl/schematron"?>
<TEI xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xml:id="V64005"><!-- GL, 2017, PB tags, Mark-up -->

<teiHeader>
<fileDesc><titleStmt><title><persName ref="prs:douglas_j"><surname>Douglas</surname>,     <forename>James</forename></persName> to <persName ref="prs:newcastle"><surname>Pelham-Clinton</surname>,  <forename>Henry</forename> <forename>Pelham</forename> <forename>Fiennes</forename></persName> 3 March 1864, CO 305:22, no. 4050, 43.</title>
<author><persName ref="prs:douglas_j">Douglas</persName></author>
<respStmt><resp>addressee</resp>
<persName ref="prs:newcastle">Newcastle</persName>
</respStmt>
</titleStmt>
<publicationStmt><p>Published by Jim Hendrickson and the University of Victoria.</p>
</publicationStmt><notesStmt><note xml:id="V64005_citation"><bibl><persName ref="prs:douglas_j"><surname>Douglas</surname>,     <forename>James</forename></persName> to <persName ref="prs:newcastle"><surname>Pelham-Clinton</surname>,  <forename>Henry</forename> <forename>Pelham</forename> <forename>Fiennes</forename></persName> 3 March 1864, CO 305:22, no. 4050, 43.<title level="m">The Colonial Despatches of Vancouver Island and British Columbia 1846-1871</title>, Edition 2.6, ed. James Hendrickson and the Colonial Despatches project. Victoria, B.C.: University of Victoria. <ref target="V64005.html">https://bcgenesis.uvic.ca/V64005.html</ref>.
                    </bibl></note></notesStmt>
<sourceDesc><bibl><idno type="archivalId">CO 305:22</idno>
<idno type="repository">CO</idno>
<idno type="coNumber">305</idno>
<idno type="coVol">22</idno>
<idno type="coRegistration">4050</idno>
<idno type="page">43</idno>
<idno type="despatchNo">5</idno>
<series>V.I.</series>
<date when="1864-03-03" type="sent">1864</date>
<date type="received" when="1864-04-30">received 30 April</date>
<biblScope type="startPageImage" facs="co_305_22/co_305_22_00044r.jpg">co_305_22_00044r.jpg</biblScope>
<note>Transcribed from microfilm archives, marked up in Waterloo Script, then transformed into TEI P5 XML.</note>
</bibl>
</sourceDesc>
</fileDesc>

<encodingDesc>
<styleDefDecl scheme="css"/>
<listPrefixDef xml:id="incPrefixDefs">
        
        <prefixDef ident="trm" matchPattern="(.+)" replacementPattern="https://bcgenesis.uvic.ca/glossary.htm#trm_$1">
          <p>The project glossary items have <att>xml:id</att> attributes beginning
          with <code>trm_</code>, and we use a <code>trm:</code> prefix to refer to
          them when linking from <gi>term</gi> elements.</p>
        </prefixDef>

        <prefixDef ident="org" matchPattern="(.+)" replacementPattern="https://bcgenesis.uvic.ca/$1.html">
          <p>We link to orgs in <code>orgs/organizations.xml</code> using the <code>org:</code> prefix.</p>
        </prefixDef>
        
        <prefixDef ident="plc" matchPattern="(.+)" replacementPattern="https://bcgenesis.uvic.ca/$1.html">
          <p>We link to places in <code>places.xml</code> using the <code>plc:</code> prefix.</p>
        </prefixDef>
        
        <prefixDef ident="prs" matchPattern="(.+)" replacementPattern="https://bcgenesis.uvic.ca/$1.html">
          <p>We link to people in <code>bios/*.xml</code> using the <code>prs:</code> prefix.</p>
        </prefixDef>
        
        <prefixDef ident="vsl" matchPattern="(.+)" replacementPattern="https://bcgenesis.uvic.ca/$1.html">
          <p>We link to vessels in <code>vessels/*.xml</code> using the <code>vsl:</code> prefix.</p>
        </prefixDef>
        
        <prefixDef ident="cdc" matchPattern="(.+)" replacementPattern="https://bcgenesis.uvic.ca/$1.html">
          <p>We link to other documents in the collection using the <code>cdc:</code> prefix.</p>
        </prefixDef>
        
        <prefixDef ident="cdt" matchPattern="(.*)" replacementPattern="http://bcgenesis.uvic.ca/document_types.xml#$1">
          <p>The cdt (ColDesp Document Type) prefix used on <gi>catRef</gi>/<att>target</att> points
            to a central taxonomy in the includes file.</p>
        </prefixDef>
        
        <prefixDef ident="img" matchPattern="(.+)" replacementPattern="https://bcgenesis.uvic.ca/imageBrowser.html?img=$1">
          <p>We link to other documents in the collection using the <code>cdc:</code> prefix.</p>
        </prefixDef>
        
      </listPrefixDef></encodingDesc>
<profileDesc><abstract><p>Despatch to London. 
                Minutes (4), Enclosures (untranscribed) (1), Other documents (1).</p>

<p><persName ref="prs:douglas_j">Douglas</persName> forwards a memorial from the Legislative Assembly of <placeName ref="plc:vancouver_island">Vancouver Island</placeName> expressing their concern about <q>the defenceless state of the Colony in the event of hostilities with Foreign powers.</q> The <orgName ref="org:colonial_office">Colonial Office</orgName> minutes their debate over the costs and advantages of stationing military or building more military works on <placeName ref="plc:vancouver_island">Vancouver Island</placeName>. It is hoped that revenue generated from <placeName ref="plc:british_columbia">British Columbia</placeName>’s gold fields could support these requests. They also consider the best option for <placeName ref="plc:vancouver_island">Vancouver Island</placeName> would be to have <placeName ref="plc:esquimalt">Esquimalt</placeName> replace <placeName ref="plc:valparaiso">Valparaiso</placeName> as the <q>Naval Station for the Pacific.</q></p>
</abstract><correspDesc>
<correspAction type="sent">
<persName ref="prs:douglas_j"><surname>Douglas</surname>,     <forename>James</forename></persName>
<date when="1864-03-03"/>
</correspAction>
<correspAction type="received">
<persName ref="prs:newcastle"><surname>Pelham-Clinton</surname>,  <forename>Henry</forename> <forename>Pelham</forename> <forename>Fiennes</forename></persName>
<date when="1864-04-30"/></correspAction></correspDesc></profileDesc>

<revisionDesc> <change resp="lyallg" when="2020-09-16">Added abstract.</change>
<change resp="lyallg" when="2019-04-10">Inserted revisionDesc.</change></revisionDesc>

</teiHeader>
 
<text><body>

<!--&amp;lt;name type="cdorigin"&amp;gt;<name key="douglas_j">Douglas</name>&amp;lt;/name&amp;gt; -->
<!--&amp;lt;name type="cdaddres"&amp;gt;<name key="newcastle">Newcastle</name>&amp;lt;/name&amp;gt; -->
<!-- ..cm =================================================================== -->
<div type="despatch_to_london">
<head>
No. 5
</head>
<opener><ref type="co_ref">4050, CO 305/22, p. 43; received 30 April
</ref>
<placeName ref="plc:victoria">Victoria</placeName>, <date when="1864-03-03">3<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">th</hi> March 1864</date>
<salute>My Lord Duke,</salute>
</opener>
<p>
I have the honor to forward herewith a Memorial addressed to Your
Grace by the Legislative Assembly of <placeName ref="plc:vancouver_island">Vancouver's Island</placeName>, upon the
defenceless state of the Colony in the event of hostilities with
Foreign powers.
</p>
<p>
2. As I have already<fw type="catchword" style="text-align: right;">addressed</fw><pb facs="co_305_22/co_305_22_00044v.jpg"/> addressed Your Grace upon this subject, it is
unnecessary that I should accompany the Memorial by further remark,
than to recommend it to Your Grace's earnest consideration.
</p>
<closer>
I have the honor to be<lb/>
My Lord Duke<lb/>
Your Graces most obedient<lb/> 
and humble Servant<lb/>
<persName ref="prs:douglas_j">James Douglas</persName>
</closer>
<!-- ..cm =================================================================== -->
</div>
<div type="minutes">
<div type="minute_entry"><pb facs="co_305_22/co_305_22_00045v.jpg"/>
<ab>
<persName ref="prs:elliot_tf">M<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">r</hi> Elliot</persName><lb/>
You will see from the Minutes on 3100 that it was proposed in <date from="1861" to="1862">1861-62</date>
at the instance of the <orgName ref="org:foreign_office">Foreign Office</orgName> to send a Regiment from
China—but that, with the consent of <persName ref="prs:russell_j">Lord Russell</persName> the matter was
allowed to drop "for the present". The subject has not since been
renewed. As to the defenceless state of the harbours of Victoria &amp;
<placeName ref="plc:esquimalt">Esquimalt</placeName> to which the Assembly advert <persName ref="prs:douglas_j">Sir James Douglas</persName> brought the
exposed state of the two Colonies under the Notice of the S. of S. in
<date when="1861">1861</date> (see Confidential Desp: 2297). The Despatch was referred to the
<orgName ref="org:war_office">W.O.</orgName> but no further steps were taken.
</ab>
<closer><signed><persName ref="prs:jadis_v">VJ</persName>
<date when="1864-04-30">
30 April
</date>
</signed>
</closer>
</div>
<div type="minute_entry">
<ab>
<persName ref="prs:fortescue">M<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">r</hi> Fortescue</persName><lb/>
See Minute annexed.
</ab>
<closer><signed><persName ref="prs:elliot_tf">TFE</persName>
<date when="1864-05-10">
10 May
</date>
</signed>
</closer>
</div>
<div type="minute_entry"><pb facs="co_305_22/co_305_22_00046r.jpg"/>
<ab>
<persName ref="prs:fortescue">M<hi style="text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">r</hi> Fortescue</persName><lb/>
This is an application from the Assembly of <placeName ref="plc:vancouver_island">Vancouver Island</placeName> for the
erection of Military Works. Although there will probably be little
doubt what the answer should be, the question involves all the most
general considerations of colonial defence.
</ab>
<p>
You are well aware how much attention has been given in the last few
years to Colonial Military expenditure. First, there sat in <date when="1860">1860</date> a
Government Committee composed of a permanent member of <orgName ref="org:treasury">the Treasury</orgName>,
the War Department, and the <orgName ref="org:colonial_office">Colonial Office</orgName>. In <date when="1861">1861</date> the subject was
reported on by a Committee of the House of Commons. In <date when="1862">1862</date> the
Defence Committee attended by a Representative of the <orgName ref="org:war_office">War Office</orgName> and
of this Office reviewed the whole subject of Colonial Fortifications.
[Marginal note: Their report was made in <date when="1863-01">Jany 1863</date>, but has not been
published.]
</p>
<p>
The conclusions, as might be expected on so wide and various a field,
were not very precise, but their tendency was sufficiently plain.
The small Committee of Government Officials, the subsequent<fw type="catchword" style="text-align: right;">Committee</fw><pb facs="co_305_22/co_305_22_00046v.jpg"/> Committee
of the House of Commons and the Defence Committee all evidently
agreed in thinking that too much in the way of military aid had been
done for the Colonies previously, and that less ought to be done in
future.
</p>
<p>
The two things to be considered in respect of defence are Troops and
Works. No Troops have ever been sent to <placeName ref="plc:vancouver_island">Vancouver</placeName>. On the formation
of <placeName ref="plc:british_columbia">British Columbia</placeName>, <persName ref="prs:lytton_egeb">Sir E. Lytton</persName> sent to it a Company of Royal
Engineers, in order that they might answer the twofold object of
making roads and doing other useful works, and at the same time
filling the part of Troops. They never did act as Soldiers, and
there is reason to believe that their work was very costly; and they
have been recalled with the unanimous consent of all parties.
</p>
<p>
On the occurrence of the difficulty at <placeName ref="plc:san_juan_island">San Juan</placeName>, the required English
detachment was<fw type="catchword" style="text-align: right;">furnished</fw><pb facs="co_305_22/co_305_22_00047r.jpg"/> furnished by a party of 100 Royal Marines. When <persName ref="prs:russell_j">Lord
Russell</persName> was told that these men had been detained so long that their
relief was called for in the ordinary course of service, His Lordship
at once said that as the War in China was over, a Regiment of the
Line ought to be brought from thence to <placeName ref="plc:vancouver_island">Vancouver</placeName>. The Military
Authorities did not actually resist but they strongly protested
against sending a single Regiment so far from all support; and as the
Army was kept longer than expected in China, the subject was tacitly
allowed to drop.
</p>
<p>
I have recapitulated these facts, because on the subject's first
coming before <persName ref="prs:cardwell">M<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">r</hi> Cardwell</persName>, he may wish to know it in all it's
bearings. But the present application is limited to the object of
getting one or more Forts or Batteries. The Commons' Committee, in
Par. 18 of their Report, give a decided opinion against multiplying
Fortifications. The Defence Committee made a<fw type="catchword" style="text-align: right;">distinction</fw><pb facs="co_305_22/co_305_22_00047v.jpg"/> distinction between
places in which Forts are wanted for some general object of National
policy and those where they are wanted, if at all, for local defence.
They confined their suggestions to Stations of the former kind; and
only recommended the maintenance of works at
<hi style="text-decoration: underline;">Imperial cost</hi> in positions where they involve an
<hi style="text-decoration: underline;">Imperial interest</hi>.
</p>
<p>
The following are examples of such places:
</p>
<p>
Commanding positions on the Globe, such as Malta, Gibraltar, Bermuda
and <placeName ref="plc:halifax">Halifax</placeName>.
</p>
<p>
Places important to Maritime traffic and for Eastern Trade and
Eastern Empire, such as the <placeName ref="plc:cape_good_hope">Cape</placeName>, Mauritius and Hong Kong.
</p>
<p>
Points of Rendezvous for any National Force employed in time of war
in the protection of large tracts of British dominions, such as
Jamaica in the West Indies.
</p>
<p>
Do the twin Colonies of <placeName ref="plc:vancouver_island">Vancouver I<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">d</hi></placeName> and <placeName ref="plc:british_columbia">British Columbia</placeName> come under
any of these descriptons? It seems to me very doubtful.<fw type="catchword" style="text-align: right;">They</fw><pb facs="co_305_22/co_305_22_00048r.jpg"/> They may
indeed give a great command over the North Pacific, but we have no
English Trade and interests in that Ocean such as those of India,
China and Australia. What we do in these two Colonies therefore must
be, it may be argued, for their own sake and not for that of anything
lying beyond them. If <placeName ref="plc:british_columbia">British Columbia</placeName> turns out a grand gold
producing Colony such as those in Australia, it ought to be able to
pay for it's own Forts as they do, and so ought <placeName ref="plc:vancouver_island">Vancouver</placeName> as sharing
it's prosperity. If <placeName ref="plc:british_columbia">British Columbia</placeName> does not so turn out, it cannot
yield so large a commerce as would give a reason for defending it
with Imperial money for the sake of an Imperial interest.
</p>
<p>
On the other hand <placeName ref="plc:vancouver_island">Vancouver</placeName> seems to afford the best Harbor open to
the British Navy on the Pacific shore of either North or South
America; and it may possibly be worth while, on purely Naval grounds,
to protect that<fw type="catchword" style="text-align: right;">Harbor</fw><pb facs="co_305_22/co_305_22_00048v.jpg"/> Harbor by Works on shore. But this would be a ground
lying beyond our province.
</p>
<p>
If therefore I were desired to suggest a course, it would be as
follows: I should forward a copy of this despatch to the <orgName ref="org:admiralty">Admiralty</orgName>
and to the <orgName ref="org:war_office">War Office</orgName>. I should say that <persName ref="prs:cardwell">M<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">r</hi> Cardwell</persName> does not find
sufficient reason to recommend the construction of Fortifications at
<placeName ref="plc:vancouver_island">Vancouver Island</placeName> on Colonial grounds or for mere purposes of local
defence. But the further question whether some Fortifications at the
two chief Harbors of <placeName ref="plc:vancouver_island">Vancouver</placeName> are required for the convenience and
safety of Her Majesty's Navy, and are so desirable that they ought to
be provided for on Army or Navy Estimates
as general objects of national policy, is a matter of which the
judgment belongs more immediately to the Secretary of State for War
and the Lords Com[missione]rs of the <orgName ref="org:admiralty">Admiralty</orgName>,<fw type="catchword" style="text-align: right;">and</fw><pb facs="co_305_22/co_305_22_00049r.jpg"/> and which therefore
<persName ref="prs:cardwell">M<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">r</hi> Cardwell</persName> can only forward for their consideration.
</p>
<closer><signed><persName ref="prs:elliot_tf">TFE</persName>
<date when="1864-05-10">
10 May
</date>
</signed>
</closer>
</div>
<div type="minute_entry">
<ab>
<persName ref="prs:cardwell">M<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">r</hi> Cardwell</persName><lb/>
An application such as this must, I think, be judged upon its own
merits, that is, by the character of the place &amp; of the interests to
be protected, rather than upon general principles. It is in its
character of a Naval Station for the Pacific (taking the place of
<placeName ref="plc:valparaiso">Valparaiso</placeName>), a depôt
of naval stores, a place for the repair of the Queen's ships, that
<placeName ref="plc:vancouver_island">Vancouver I<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">d</hi></placeName> <choice><abbr>w<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">d</hi></abbr><expan>would</expan></choice> have a claim, if any, upon the Imp. <choice><abbr>Gov<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">t</hi></abbr><expan>Government</expan></choice> &amp; Parl<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">mt</hi>
for the creation of works of defence. I think it highly probable
that this claim will increase in force, and will have to be
recognized. But it may be staved off for the present.
<hi style="text-decoration: underline;"><placeName ref="plc:victoria">Victoria</placeName></hi> is the commercial Harbour,<pb facs="co_305_22/co_305_22_00049v.jpg"/> and any works for its
defense ought to be made &amp; paid for by the Colony or Colonies
concerned. <placeName ref="plc:esquimalt">Esquimalt</placeName> is the Naval Harbour—and there, sooner or
later, the Home <choice><abbr>Gov<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">t</hi></abbr><expan>Government</expan></choice> may be expected to assist. It may also be well
to remember that the Governors lately sent out to <placeName ref="plc:vancouver_island">V.I<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">d</hi></placeName> &amp; <placeName ref="plc:british_columbia">B. Columbia</placeName>
have been instructed to use their best endeavours to bring about a
union of the two Colonies; because works of this kind, at what wd.
then be the common Capital, wd. be far more easily paid for out of
the common exchequer than from the scanty revenue of <placeName ref="plc:vancouver_island">Vancouver</placeName>. Upon
the whole, I think it will be very proper to send this to the <orgName ref="org:war_office">W.O.</orgName>
and <orgName ref="org:admiralty">Admiralty</orgName>, with the observations proposed by <persName ref="prs:elliot_tf">M<hi style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 80%;">r</hi> Elliot</persName>.
</ab>
<closer><signed><persName ref="prs:fortescue">CF</persName>
<date when="1864-05-11">
11
</date>
</signed>
<signed><persName ref="prs:cardwell">EC</persName>
<date when="1864-05-16">
16
</date>
</signed>
</closer>
<!-- ..cm =================================================================== -->
</div>
</div>
<div type="enclosure_list">
<div type="enclosure_entry"><pb facs="co_305_22/co_305_22_00050r.jpg"/>
<ab>
Memorial to <persName ref="prs:newcastle">Newcastle</persName> from the members of the Legislative
Assembly, no date, urging establishment of military works to protect
the harbors of <placeName ref="plc:victoria">Victoria</placeName> and <placeName ref="plc:esquimalt">Esquimalt</placeName>, signed by <persName ref="prs:helmcken_js">J.S. Helmcken</persName>,
Speaker.
<!-- ..cm =================================================================== -->
</ab>
</div>
</div>
<div type="other_files">
<div type="other_entry"><pb facs="co_305_22/co_305_22_00052r.jpg"/>
<ab>
<persName ref="prs:elliot_tf">Elliot</persName> to Under-Secretary of State for War and Secretary to
the <orgName ref="org:admiralty">Admiralty</orgName>, <date when="1864-05-23">23 May 1864</date>, forwarding copies of the despatch and
memorial for consideration.
</ab>
</div>
</div></body>
</text>
</TEI>