Separate
               
            
            
            
            
               I have just had the honor to receive your despatch No.
               13 of 
3rd March, suggesting serious doubts ("to say the
               least") of the legality of the appointments I have made
to
 to
               the Legislative Council of this Colony.  The importance of
               the subject compels me to address you without a moments
               delay and send an express to 
Esquimalt to meet a Steamer
               which may be expected tomorrow.
               
               2.  Permit me first to say that I have had no previous
               experience of the working of a Legislative Constitution such
               as this Colony now possesses.  The late Secretary of State,
who
               who honored me by special instructions as to my Administration
               of Affairs, informed me, that his desire to confer
               representative institutions upon the people was only kept in
               check by the difficulties of the case.  His Grace expressed the
               wish that I should do what lay in my power to prepare the people
               for that system of self Government which must ultimately come
               and which, he observed, would facilitate the absorption of
Vancouver Vancouver Island
               Vancouver Island into the Government of 
British Columbia.  I
               need not say that I promised faithfully to carry out His Grace's
               commands, but at the same time I ventured to say, that by
               giving a liberal interpretation to the Order in Council
               constituting the present Legislature, I should be able to
               prevent for some time any further clamour for representation
               or responsible Government.
               
               3.  My words have been
fully
 fully verified.  During the late
               protracted Session, neither in the Council nor without, by
               press or people, was there an expression uttered against the
               present constitution.  So far from that of 
Vancouver Island
               being now the model, the Legislature of that Colony have
               expressed, in their anxiety for a union with 
British Columbia,
               a willingness to adopt our Legislative arrangements.  The
               theoretically imperfect constitution
has
 has been found practically
               more useful than the one held out to us for imitation.
               
               4.  Pray understand that I am not losing sight of the
               expediency of bringing our Institutions into harmony with
               those of the older Colonies beyond the 
Rocky Mountains, nor
               am I closing my eyes to the fact that the usefulness of the
               work done in the late Session, in no way affects the question
of
               of the Legality of the appointment of the Councillors who did it.
               
               5.  I was of opinion that the Order in Council and the
               Royal Instructions allowed me to make two distinct Legislative
               bodies of the Governor, and the remainder of the Legislative Council.
               The former having the power to prorogue and dissolve the latter.
               
               
               
                  
                     
                     This is the mistake the Govr has fallen into.
                     
                  
                
               
               Your despatch No. 31 of 
16th
                  August 1864, tacitly admits the right first assumed;
that
 that, to which I
               have now the honor to reply, questions the second.
               
               6.  I cite first in support of the view I adopted, the
               
Duke of Newcastle's Separate despatch to 
Governor Douglas
               of the 
15th June 1863. His Grace writes; "I also leave
               it to you to determine the period for which (subject to Her
               Majesty's pleasure, which involves a practical power
               
               
               
               
               of dissolution)
the
 the Councillors should be appointed."
               
               7.  The 5
th Section of the Order in Council likewise
               says that all appointments, other than those of Public
               Officers nominated by the Crown, shall be "provisional only,
               until the same shall have been approved by Her Majesty through
               one of Her Principal Secretaries of State."  None of the
               appointments made by 
Sir James Douglas appear
to
 to have been
               approved by Her Majesty.
               
               8.  You impress upon me the necessity of "acting with
               great care and in any doubtful case, with the advice of Counsel,
               in matters where the legal validity of my proceedings is
               liable to be impeached."  I can assure you that I did not
               act without care or consideration in dissolving the Council,
               and I observe that the Instrument under which I
believed
 believed
               myself to have performed that operation is in the hand writing
               of the Attorney General.  The Order in Council of the 
11th
                  of 1863, you will find printed in the Legislative proceedings
               of the first Session of 
1864.  It was therefore in the hands
               of every member of the Council; and, though there are now
               four barristers, the Attorney General, 
Mr Elliot, 
Mr Walkem
               and 
Mr Cornwall, in the present Council, not
a
 a doubt was
               suggested as to the legality of the dissolution, by means
               of which the people had been permitted to present the two
               latter gentlemen to represent them in Council.  Our only
               Judge, 
Mr Begbie, was good enough to call on me more than
               once with exceptions to the Standing Rules I had drawn up.
               He thought I could not legally enforce the fine for non
               attendance.  We discussed some other points which do not
at
 at
               once recur to my memory, but very certainly he did not express
               a doubt as to the validity of the appointment of the Councillors.
               
               9.  If the legality of the dissolution be established,
               I have no fear of your opinion as to the propriety of the
               step.  Had I imagined I possessed no power to dissolve,
               there were but three courses open to me.  To allow the Council
               to expire unused on the 
31st ofDecember December
 December, and throw all
               the heterogeneous mass of Supplementary Accounts—the old
               promises made, the old debts contracted, but not provided
               for by my predecessor, into the January Session and prevent
               my starting on the first real Legislative work I have
               undertaken untrammeled by embarrassments not of my own creation.
               In this case, the work of the Session would have been, even
               with the extraordinarily prolonged winter of this year,
cut
 cut
               short or mutilated by the departure of the majority of the
               Council for the interior.  Or I might have reappointed the
               old Council on the 
1st of January; but the 
Duke of Newcastle
               directed me to appoint men who had the public confidence.  I
               should have virtually disobeyed orders had I adopted this
               second alternative.  Three out of the five popular members
               were rejected at the new elections.  But His Grace
wished
 wished
               also that all important interests should be represented.
               How could the most important district in the Colony—that
               containing the 
Kootenay and 
Columbia Gold Mines—find a
               voice in the House if I adhered to the arrangements by which
               the 52 miles between 
Yale and 
Lytton continued to be
               represented by two men?  
Mr Sanders but spoke for a small
               town on the 
Fraser, 
Mr Haynes made known the wishes of the
               miners from
the
 the 
Rocky Mountains to the 
Cascade Range.  
Mr
                  Nind had been debarred, (under what authority I know not)
               by 
Sir James Douglas, who appointed him, from attending the Council.
               
               10.  Lastly, I might have got over the 
December Session
               with one Council, that of 
January with another.  This sounds
               plausible, but it is practically impossible.  The Upper
               Country is almost deserted in the
winter
 winter.  The Miners have
               left the Colony.  The communications are closed.  There would
               have been a cry of indignation in the spring at the sham
               elections.  But had I been able satisfactorily to get the
               new Members, the expense would have been enormus.  There would
               have been four unofficial members for 
Cariboo.  Their Travelling
               allowance in 
1864 was one hundred and fifty pounds (£150) a head.
               
Mr O'Reilly received last year four hundred and fourteen
               pounds (£414)
for
 for the expenses of his return, only, from the Session.
               Other Members kept the same proportions.  My double staff
               of selected and appointed Members would have been a terrible
               weight on the Colonial resources even had the avalanches
               and snow drifts on the main line of road enabled the Second
               Council to reach 
New Westminster at all.
               
               11.  And now what is to
be
 be done if the proceedings of
               the Council are a nullity, and that body has no legal existence?
               I deeply regret to say that the assistance in the way of
               advice you are good enough to give me fails to meet the
               case.  The Council has been prorogued.  
Mr O'Reilly is at
               the 
Kootenay Mines, five hundred miles off.  
Mr Ball is in
               
Cariboo, the same distance from the seat of Government.  
Mr
                  Elliot is at 
Lillooet several hundred miles away.  
Mr Hayneswatching
               watching the American frontier with his staff of Constables
               and Customs Officers at 
Osoyoos, half way to the 
Kootenay.
               The expense of recalling these Gentlemen would be enormous.
               Their absence, from the posts assigned to them, during the
               height of the Mining Season would entirely dislocate the
               machinery of the Government.
               
               Of the elected members, 
Mr
                  Walkem is at 
Cariboo, 
Mr Cornwall at the 
Kootenay, they
               would
both
 both send me in their resignations should I summon them
               to town.  I know of no central spot where the Council could meet and
               the Government Officers be brought up to it from 
New Westminster.
               
               12.  If you should arrive at the definite conclusion
               that our late proceedings, which have given so much satisfaction
               to the Colony, are illegal, I know of but two courses to be
               pursued.  Possibly you might legalize
by
 by a short Act of
               Parliament the appointment of the Councillors; as the error,
               if it be one, was mainly the result of the meaning attributed
               to your predecessor's words.
               
               
               
               
               Or else, the whole matter might
               be kept quiet until the Autumn; the present Council then
               receive fresh appointments, and an Ordinance passed, as
               suggested by you, "Establishing retrospectively the validity
               of all acts and proceedings taken
before
 before their re-appointment."
               
               
               
               
               
               13.  Had your instructions reached me earlier there would
               not have been the least difficulty in carrying out the course
               you prescribe.  No one member would have hesitated to ratify
               the policy and the acts of the House.
               
            
            
               14.  Possibly you might be able to communicate with me by
               telegraph through 
Newfoundland or 
New York in such a manner
               by a reference to the paragraphs
of
 of your despatch or of mine,
               as would not be comprehended on the Line.
               
               15.  I beg that you will extend every indulgence to this
               communication written with the utmost haste.
               
            
            
            P.S. There is 
            
            P.S. There is another view of the case. If the Council
               was not legally dissolved, the Colonial Secretary, Attorney
               General, Treasurer, Collector of Customs, 
Messrs O'Reilly,
               
Ball, 
Brew, 
Homer and 
Holbrook, continued to be Members of
               Council with their Commissions renewed from 
December 1864,
                  to May 1866.  
Mr Cornwall was also legally appointed on the
               
12th of January 1865. 
Mr Trutchwas
 was absent. Thus ten
               members out of fourteen would appear to have been effective.
               No measure was carried by a bare majority of the Council.
               
F.S.
               
               
               Minutes by CO staff
               
                
                  
                  Mr Elliot
                     I think that there is no necessity for sending any
                     telegram to 
Govr Seymour on this subject, and that the
                     consideration of this 
desph and what steps should be
                     taken to remedy any act of impropriety or illegality
                     which the 
Govr may have committed may be reserved for
                     
Sir F. Rogers.  It is too late for an Act of Parl
t,
                     if not quite unnecessary, and the 
Govr cannot get his
                     Councillors together at present.  So that if the Councillors
                     are to be reappointed, and an Act of Indemnity passed it
                     can only be done in the Autumn.
                     
 
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                     Sir F. Rogers
                     There was evidently no opportunity of sending him any
                     useful instructions by telegraph, and I have reserved this
                     for you.  
Govr Seymour defends himself from the charge of
                     want of consideration, and also explains some practical
                     difficulties which appear forcible.
                     
 
                  
                  
                   
               
               
                  
                  
                     I have no doubt that in substance 
Mr Seymours proceedings
                     were well considered but unfortunately he took an illegal
                     method (as it appears to me) of effecting his purpose.
                     
                     I think the proper course is the 2
nd of the alternatives
                     proposed by him, 
wh was in effect suggested by 
Mr Cardwell's dph.
                     
 
                
            
            
            
               
                  People in this document
                  
                        Ball,  Henry Maynard
                  Begbie, Matthew Baillie
                  
                        Blackwood, Arthur Johnstone
                  
                        Brew, Chartres
                  
                        Cardwell, Edward
                  
                        Cornwall, Clement Francis
                  
                        Douglas, Sir James
                  
                        Elliot, Andrew Charles
                  
                        Elliot, Thomas Frederick
                  
                        Haynes, John Carmichael
                  
                        Holbrook,  Henry
                  
                        Homer, Joshua Attwood Reynolds
                  
                        Nind,  Philip H.
                  O'Reilly, Peter
                  Pelham-Clinton, 5th Duke of Newcastle Henry Pelham Fiennes
                  Rogers, Baron Blachford Frederic
                  Sanders, Edward Howard
                  Seymour, Governor Frederick
                  Trutch, Sir Joseph William
                  
                        Walkem, George Anthony
                
               
                  Places in this document
                  British Columbia
                  Cariboo Region
                  Cascade Mountains
                  Columbia River
                  Esquimalt
                  Fraser River
                  Kootenay Region
                  Kootenay River
                  Lillooet
                  Lytton
                  New Westminster
                  New York
                  Newfoundland
                  Osoyoos
                  The Rocky Mountains
                  Vancouver Island
                  Yale