Colonial Despatches
The colonial despatches of Vancouver Island and British Columbia 1846-1871
Public Offices document
Berens, Henry Hulse to Pelham-Clinton, 5th Duke of Newcastle Henry Pelham Fiennes 4 November 1859, CO 305:13, no. 10998, 170.
Abstract
Berens, Henry Hulse to Pelham-Clinton, 5th Duke of Newcastle Henry Pelham Fiennes 4 November 1859, CO 305:13, no. 10998, 170.
Public Offices document.
Minutes (5), Enclosures (untranscribed) (9), Marginalia (1).
Berens to Newcastle
4 November 1859
I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of Mr Merivale's letter
of the 31st ultimo transmitting a copy of a correspondence which has
passed between your Grace and Governor Douglas on the employment of
British Columbia Officials in the service of the Government of
Vancouver's Island.
The portion of that correspondence which seems most particularly to
interest this Company is the announcement made at the end of Your
Grace's letter to Governor Douglas, that Vancouver's Island like
other British Communities however small
small "must expect no assistance
from without towards the ordinary and regular expenses of her
Government"—and I shall take care that the attention of the
Company's representative in Vancouver's Island, to whom the whole
correspondence will be forwarded by the next post, shall be called to
that intimation.
small "must expect no assistance
from without towards the ordinary and regular expenses of her
Government"—and I shall take care that the attention of the
Company's representative in Vancouver's Island, to whom the whole
correspondence will be forwarded by the next post, shall be called to
that intimation.
I avail myself of this opportunity of referring your Grace once more
to a letter which Mr Fortescue addressed to me on the 12th July
last by Your Grace's directions, and in which after referring to
certain advances made by this Company's representative in the Island
at Governor Douglas's earnest request for the erection of some public
buildings which were pressingly required
required, you informed me that Her
Majesty's Government would not consider themselves bound by the
conditions of the Grant of Vancouver's Island to take upon themselves
the repayment of any cost thus incurred, after the actual expiration
of the Grant, or in the immediate prospect of its expiration.
required, you informed me that Her
Majesty's Government would not consider themselves bound by the
conditions of the Grant of Vancouver's Island to take upon themselves
the repayment of any cost thus incurred, after the actual expiration
of the Grant, or in the immediate prospect of its expiration.
That letter I had the honour of answering on the 19th of the same
month, and I at the same time directed that a copy of the
correspondence should be forwarded to Vancouver's Island for the
guidance of Mr Dallas, the Company's representative there. The last
Mail has brought Mr Dallas's acknowledgement of the correspondence,
together with a letter addressed to the Secretary of this Company
giving
giving a detailed account of the circumstances under which he
consented to make those advances.
giving a detailed account of the circumstances under which he
consented to make those advances.
I now have the honor of transmitting that letter for Your Grace's
information, (together with a Copy of a correspondence on the subject
which has taken place between Mr Dallas and Governor Douglas), and I
venture to hope that the explanations which he gives will satisfy
Your Grace that under the circumstances he could not have acted
otherwise.
Minutes by CO staff
Mr Elliot
The grant of Vancouvers Island to the Hudsons Bay Company reserved power to H.M.'s Govt to repurchase the Island, on making payt to the Company in consideration of the sums expended by them and the value of their establishments, at the expiration of a license of exclusive trade granted to the Company.
The grant of Vancouvers Island to the Hudsons Bay Company reserved power to H.M.'s Govt to repurchase the Island, on making payt to the Company in consideration of the sums expended by them and the value of their establishments, at the expiration of a license of exclusive trade granted to the Company.
That license expired on 30 May 1859, and HM's Govt determined to
exercise their power of repurchase.
During the company's tenure of the Island, the produce of the land
sales were paid over by the Governor to their agent who supplied the
funds necessary for the civil government.
The company were cautioned by this Department against continuing to
make advances to the Governor after the expiration of the license,
and
and the present letter contains a statement of all the advances made
by their Agent since that date. They are
1. $5,000, for liabilities incurred previously to the 30 May 59.
2. $2,000 as a loan, to extricate the Governor from financial difficulties in which he was thrown by being no longer able to draw on the company for his supplies.
3. $27,000 for the erection of Public Buildings.
and the present letter contains a statement of all the advances made
by their Agent since that date. They are
1. $5,000, for liabilities incurred previously to the 30 May 59.
2. $2,000 as a loan, to extricate the Governor from financial difficulties in which he was thrown by being no longer able to draw on the company for his supplies.
3. $27,000 for the erection of Public Buildings.
The first two items do not seem to require notice, but I would
call attention to the third, in connection with the Governor's
despatch No 47/10759 now under acknowledgement.
The erection of these Buildings was first reported by Governor Douglas in his despatch No 17 of 14 May from which it appeared that
he had obtained the necessary funds from 
the Hudsons Bay Coy's
Agent, and that he intended to include the Buildings with the other
improvements effected by the Company during the grant of the Island,
& thus throw the cost on the Crown.
the Hudsons Bay Coy's
Agent, and that he intended to include the Buildings with the other
improvements effected by the Company during the grant of the Island,
& thus throw the cost on the Crown.
The Duke of Newcastle informed him, on 12th July 59 that this could
not be allowed, and that if he relied on the cost being borne by HM's
Govt, he must at once discontinue all further expenditure upon
them.
The Governor replied, No 47, 12th September, that the circumstances
had been misapprehended here, and that the cost of the buildings has
been defrayed by the sale of a piece of land in Victoria reserved by
the H.B. Compy for Govt purposes.
But the present letter from the Compy encloses one from their 
Agent
in which he states that he was reluctantly induced to advance the
$27,000 for the Buildings
on condition that the sum advanced should be passed by the Governor
as fairly coming within the head of sums expended by the Company
during the period of the grant of the Island.
Agent
in which he states that he was reluctantly induced to advance the
$27,000 for the Buildings
on condition that the sum advanced should be passed by the Governor
as fairly coming within the head of sums expended by the Company
during the period of the grant of the Island.
It appears to me that the statements of Governor Douglas & of the
Company's Agent are somewhat contradictory.
If the explanation is that Governor Douglas had in the first instance
intended to throw the cost on the Home Govt and that finding that
this course was disapproved by the Secretary of State, resorted to
the expedient of disposing of the land referred to in his despatch,
some misgiving 
may be felt whether the interests of the Colony may
not have been sacrificed by a forced sale.
may be felt whether the interests of the Colony may
not have been sacrificed by a forced sale.
I would suggest that the present letter from the Company and its
enclosures should be sent to the Governor, that it shd be pointed
out that they "confirm the surmise"
that it was intended in the first instance to throw the cost of the
Buildings on the Home Government, and that he shd be asked for
further information respecting the sale of land referred to in his
despatch No 47, both as to the extent of land & mode of sale.
Instead of these words I would prefer "agree with the
supposition originally formed here".
The Hudsons Bay Company might be informed that the Duke of Newcastle
understands that the advance of $27000 dollars by their Agent has
been met by the sale of Land in question, asking 
at the same time
whether they have received any report of the transaction?
at the same time
whether they have received any report of the transaction?
HT Irving
7th Nov
This appears to be right, I think.
TFE
10 Nov
Duke of Newcastle
I think that the Govnr's attention ought to be called to the statement of Mr Dallas that the funds for the Government buildings had been advanced by him on condition that the sum sh. be passed by the Govnr "as fairly coming within the head of sums expended by the Co. during their grant of the island," and that he sh. be asked for an explanation. This statement is irreconcileable with Mr Douglas' account of the transaction in his desp. of 12 Sep., or appears to be so, indeed down to that very date, he was endeavouring to obtain supplies from the Agent of the Hudsons Bay Co. on the
ground that
"their charter had not yet been formally determined by Her M's
Govt."
I think that the Govnr's attention ought to be called to the statement of Mr Dallas that the funds for the Government buildings had been advanced by him on condition that the sum sh. be passed by the Govnr "as fairly coming within the head of sums expended by the Co. during their grant of the island," and that he sh. be asked for an explanation. This statement is irreconcileable with Mr Douglas' account of the transaction in his desp. of 12 Sep., or appears to be so, indeed down to that very date, he was endeavouring to obtain supplies from the Agent of the Hudsons Bay Co. on the
ground that
"their charter had not yet been formally determined by Her M's
Govt."
CF
11
The date of the Governor's despatch No 10759 is identical with the
last letter of the somewhat angry correspondence between him &
Mr Dallas, and I must say the new light thrown by the latter upon
the transaction which induced my call for explanation in July is
little creditable to the Governor's candour—for under any
circumstances the most favorable to him he has only given a
half explanation of what he has done.
There is of course no need to send to him copies of any of the
enclosures in the letter from the H.B.Cy except the first, but the
fact of their having been transmitted here should be notified to him
and 
he must be called upon for explanation in the terms of Mr
Irving's Minute.
he must be called upon for explanation in the terms of Mr
Irving's Minute.
The statement of Govr Douglas in 10759 should be communicated to the
H.B.C. in answer to this letter of Mr Berens and they should be
asked whether they have received any intimation of the sale of the
land and of the arrangement said to have been made with Mr Dallas.
N
22
Documents enclosed with the main document (not transcribed)
A.G. Dallas to Thomas Fraser, Hudson's Bay Company, 14 September
1859, explaining the circumstances and conditions upon which he had
agreed to advance Douglas the funds needed for new public buildings,
and enclosing copies of a subsequent correspondence with Douglas.
Douglas to Dallas, 19 August 1859, asking why he had
refused payment of an order for $708.30 on account of expenses
incurred by the sheriff of Vancouver Island.
Douglas to Dallas, 6 September 1859, stating that he had instructed
the colonial surveyor not to pay over the land revenues, because he had
not yet received a clear answer to his question of 23 August, and
asking for rectification of the surveyor's accounts relative to
the sale of certain "Government reserved land."
