Colonial Despatches
The colonial despatches of Vancouver Island and British Columbia 1846-1871
Public Offices document
Ellice, Edward
to Pelham-Clinton, 5th Duke of Newcastle Henry Pelham Fiennes 11 May 1860, CO 305:15, no. 4873, 469.
Abstract
Ellice, Edward
to Pelham-Clinton, 5th Duke of Newcastle Henry Pelham Fiennes 11 May 1860, CO 305:15, no. 4873, 469.
Public Offices document.
Minutes (4).
Ellice to Newcastle
11 May 1860
I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of Mr Fortescue's letter of
the 5th instant transmitting the Copy of a despatch which your Grace
proposes to address to Governor Douglas.
I beg to suggest that the Governor should be expressly cautioned
against acting upon Your Grace's instructions in regard to the land
in Vancouver's Island until he receives the requisite authority from
this Company, which is to be sent out to him as soon as the payment
of the £25,000 shall have been made.
I
I think it right also to advert to that part of the proposed despatch
which refers to the sums to be paid to this Company on the
reconveyance of the Island of Vancouver. The claim originally sent
in, as stated in the despatch, embraced the whole of the expenditure
of the Company, and amounted to £225,699; but I would submit that the
despatch is not quite correct when it goes on to state that,
on being informed that
it was not the desire of Her Majesty's Government
to take over any of the establishments or property connected with
their commercial transactions
this Company furnished an amended account.
I think it right to observe that
that the first communication received by
this Company after the account alluded to was sent in, was under date
the 28th July 1858, from Lord Carnarvon the then Under-Secretary for
the Colonies, in which he stated that
Her Majesty's Government are of opinion, and are legally advised,
that according to the proper and fair construction of the Royal Grant
of the 13th January 1849, the obligation of Her Majesty's Government
to compensate the Company, in the event of a repurchase, extends only
to sums laid out by the Company upon the Island and premises as
Owners thereof, and the value of the establishments, property, and
effects of the Company being thereon, and connected
connected with such
Ownership;
and he went on to state that Her Majesty's Government did not
recognize any obligation to compensate the Company for such of their
establishments and property as had been erected and got together in
consequence of, and in relation to, their commercial operations as a
Company carrying on Trade with the Indians.
that the first communication received by
this Company after the account alluded to was sent in, was under date
the 28th July 1858, from Lord Carnarvon the then Under-Secretary for
the Colonies, in which he stated that
Her Majesty's Government are of opinion, and are legally advised,
that according to the proper and fair construction of the Royal Grant
of the 13th January 1849, the obligation of Her Majesty's Government
to compensate the Company, in the event of a repurchase, extends only
to sums laid out by the Company upon the Island and premises as
Owners thereof, and the value of the establishments, property, and
effects of the Company being thereon, and connected
connected with such
Ownership;
and he went on to state that Her Majesty's Government did not
recognize any obligation to compensate the Company for such of their
establishments and property as had been erected and got together in
consequence of, and in relation to, their commercial operations as a
Company carrying on Trade with the Indians.
This Company were advised that they had a right to call for payment
of the full amount of the claims they had sent in, but not wishing to
create discussion, or to occasion inconvenience to the Government, so
so
long as it could be avoided without an undue sacrifice of the
interests of their constituents, the Directors were induced to
furnish an amended claim, assuming the Company to retain that part of
their property which the Government declined to take off their hands.
Upon reference to the subsequent correspondence, Your Grace will find
that when the discussion arose about the expenses incurred in
searching for Coal, which it was proposed to refer to Sir John
Coleridge, this Company were anxious that the whole question should be
submitted to him, but this was refused on the part of the Government.
I
so
long as it could be avoided without an undue sacrifice of the
interests of their constituents, the Directors were induced to
furnish an amended claim, assuming the Company to retain that part of
their property which the Government declined to take off their hands.
Upon reference to the subsequent correspondence, Your Grace will find
that when the discussion arose about the expenses incurred in
searching for Coal, which it was proposed to refer to Sir John
Coleridge, this Company were anxious that the whole question should be
submitted to him, but this was refused on the part of the Government.
I am anxious there should be no misunderstanding on this part of the
question, as it will necessarily be brought into discussion when this
Company's rights in Vancouver's Island come to be considered before
the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council; and it is desirable
therefore that its real position should be fully understood.
Minutes by CO staff
Mr Fortescue
So far as regards the payment of the £25,000, it is only necessary for us to suspend the despatch to the Governor until the Treasury make the payment which I trust cannot be delayed beyond a very short time.
TheSo far as regards the payment of the £25,000, it is only necessary for us to suspend the despatch to the Governor until the Treasury make the payment which I trust cannot be delayed beyond a very short time.
The remainder of the Company's letter is somewhat obscure. Their
apparent object is to prevent their being prejudiced by having
furnished an amended account. But they made no such proviso at the
time, and the present communication does look a little like a
repentance of what they had previously done.
The proposed despatch may also require some slight modifications in
order to make it clear that the Governor is to wait not merely for
payment of the £25,000, but for receipt of the authority which the
Company has thereupon sent him.
TFE
14 May
Duke of Newcastle
I hope the £25,000 may be paid very soon, & that the authority from the H.B.Co. for the sale of land may be sent out to the Govr, with the despatch wh. is now in draft.
The rest of the letter is
written, I have no doubt, with a view to the question of title to the
"Fur Trade Reserves" referred to the Judicial Committee. The Co.
remind us that we maintained, under legal advice, that the obligation
of the Govt to repurchase extended only to their property got
together by them as owners of the Island, & not to that connected
with their commercial operations, under which latter head they hold
these Reserves to come. The gist of the letter is to be found in the
words, "assuming the Co. to retain that part of their property wh.
the Govt
declined
to take off their hands", which imply, I suppose, that if the Govt
insist on taking one portion of their
commercial
property, they must take all, and the second reduced account must be
taken to be withdrawn. But, however that may be, I see no objection
to substitute for the words they object to in the draft, the words—(after "informed")—"that
H.M.'s Govt declined &c".
I hope the £25,000 may be paid very soon, & that the authority from the H.B.Co. for the sale of land may be sent out to the Govr, with the despatch wh. is now in draft.
The rest of the letter is
written, I have no doubt, with a view to the question of title to the
"Fur Trade Reserves" referred to the Judicial Committee. The Co.
remind us that we maintained, under legal advice, that the obligation
of the Govt to repurchase extended only to their property got
together by them as owners of the Island, & not to that connected
with their commercial operations, under which latter head they hold
these Reserves to come. The gist of the letter is to be found in the
words, "assuming the Co. to retain that part of their property wh.
the Govt
declined
to take off their hands", which imply, I suppose, that if the Govt
insist on taking one portion of their
commercial
property, they must take all, and the second reduced account must be
taken to be withdrawn. But, however that may be, I see no objection
to substitute for the words they object to in the draft, the words—(after "informed")—"that
H.M.'s Govt declined &c".
CF
14
Since this was received a further correspondence with the Treasury
has taken place respecting the payment of the £25,000—which will
entail some further (I hope not long) delay.
It will be right (when the money is paid) to revise the draft despatch.
N
16
Mr Blackwood
This letter must therefore be brought forward again, when the Treasury & Commrs have reported on the Co's accounts.
This letter must therefore be brought forward again, when the Treasury & Commrs have reported on the Co's accounts.
TFE
17 May