Colonial Despatches
The colonial despatches of Vancouver Island and British Columbia 1846-1871
Despatch to London
Douglas, Sir James to Pelham-Clinton, 5th Duke of Newcastle Henry Pelham Fiennes 17 September 1861, CO 305:17, no. 10475, 455.
Abstract
Douglas, Sir James to Pelham-Clinton, 5th Duke of Newcastle Henry Pelham Fiennes 17 September 1861, CO 305:17, no. 10475, 455.
Despatch to London.
Minutes (5), Enclosures (untranscribed) (5), Other documents (1).
No. 63
17 September 1861
I have the honour to forward herewith for Your Grace's consideration,
an application transmitted to me by the Naval Commander in Chief Rear
Admiral Sir Thomas Maitland, fromthe
the Lieutenants in Command of Her
Majesty's Gun Boats Grappler and Forward, for a rate of Colonial pay
to be awarded to those Vessels during the period they are employed in
this part of Her Majesty's Dominions.
the Lieutenants in Command of Her
Majesty's Gun Boats Grappler and Forward, for a rate of Colonial pay
to be awarded to those Vessels during the period they are employed in
this part of Her Majesty's Dominions.
2. As Your Grace is aware, the Revenues of the two Colonies of
Vancouver Island and British Columbia are not yet in a state to admit of any charge beingmade
made upon them upon this account. Both Colonies
are still in that infant condition which requires the fostering care
of the Mother Country to provide the means necessary for safety and
protection. Towards this end these two Gun Boats are a most
invaluable auxiliary, and it affords me great pleasure to say that
recently they have upon several occasions been most judiciously and
usefully employed in themaintenance
maintenance of law and order, and in the
preservation of life and property: and it is very desirable that
they should at all times be in a state of perfect efficiency and free
to be detached with confidence upon emergency or upon any service for
which they may be required. This, however, can hardly be expected
under the existing circumstances of the Country, when the rate of
wages, bothafloat
afloat and ashore, is so high, and appears so extremely
disproportionate to the rate of Naval Pay; and when, as now, the most
exciting reports are daily received from the Miners, and fortunate
Miners are seen in the Streets with their glittering and seemingly
easily acquired treasures.
made upon them upon this account. Both Colonies
are still in that infant condition which requires the fostering care
of the Mother Country to provide the means necessary for safety and
protection. Towards this end these two Gun Boats are a most
invaluable auxiliary, and it affords me great pleasure to say that
recently they have upon several occasions been most judiciously and
usefully employed in themaintenance
maintenance of law and order, and in the
preservation of life and property: and it is very desirable that
they should at all times be in a state of perfect efficiency and free
to be detached with confidence upon emergency or upon any service for
which they may be required. This, however, can hardly be expected
under the existing circumstances of the Country, when the rate of
wages, bothafloat
afloat and ashore, is so high, and appears so extremely
disproportionate to the rate of Naval Pay; and when, as now, the most
exciting reports are daily received from the Miners, and fortunate
Miners are seen in the Streets with their glittering and seemingly
easily acquired treasures.
3. The Crews of the Gun Boats are exposed to temptation more than
theCrew
Crews of larger Vessels. The Gun Boats are permanently stationed
here. Larger Vessels visit other parts of the Station, have fresh
scenes before them, and are not constantly hearing the exciting and
unsettling tales incident to a Gold Country. Larger Vessels have
also Officers sufficient to supervise the Crew. The Gun Boats have
but one Commissioned Officer, theOfficer
Officer in Command, so that the Crew must, to a certain extent, be more trusted,
and less under surveillance.
Crews of larger Vessels. The Gun Boats are permanently stationed
here. Larger Vessels visit other parts of the Station, have fresh
scenes before them, and are not constantly hearing the exciting and
unsettling tales incident to a Gold Country. Larger Vessels have
also Officers sufficient to supervise the Crew. The Gun Boats have
but one Commissioned Officer, theOfficer
Officer in Command, so that the Crew must, to a certain extent, be more trusted,
and less under surveillance.
4. Under these circumstances, and appreciating the value of the Gun
Boats, and the expediency of keeping them thoroughly efficient, and
considering their small cost in proportion to the services rendered,
I cannot but recommend the applicationto
to the favorable notice of
Your Grace.
to the favorable notice of
Your Grace.
Minutes by CO staff
Mr Elliot
We have no information as to terms offered to the Crews of the Gun boats, and I presume the present application for Colonial pay should in the first instance be referred to the Admiralty?
We have no information as to terms offered to the Crews of the Gun boats, and I presume the present application for Colonial pay should in the first instance be referred to the Admiralty?
VJ
26 Nov
Mr Fortescue
See minute within.
See minute within.
TFE
10 Decr
Documents enclosed with the main document (not transcribed)
Maitland to Douglas, 14 June 1861, transmitting two letters
addressed to Captain J.W.S. Spencer of H.M.S. Topaze by the officers commanding the gun boats.
Lieutenant A.T.H. Helby, commander of the
Grappler, to Spencer, 19 October 1860, applying for colonial pay for the crews of the gun boats, in fulfillment of expectations
held out to them at the time of their recruitment, and for other reasons.
Lieutenant Charles Robson, commander of the
Forward to Spencer, 16 October 1860,
applying for colonial pay for the crews of the gun boats,
with arguments similar to Helby's.
Minutes by CO staff
Mr Fortescue
These extra allowances to our Army and Navy in different parts of the World, depending on no fixed rule either as to their amount or as to the places where they are to be given or withheld, constitute an anomaly of recent growth, and one which may sooner or later prove very inconvenient. You are familiar with the subject on account of your researches in the Committee of last Session. In India the Troops always had double pay. In the Colonies (except Ceylon so close as it is to India) neither Soldiers nor Sailors, so far as I am aware, had any extra pay until the Gold discoveries in Australia. Those created a demand which it was impossible to resist for additional allowances. They were not only just in themselves, but had they been refused, our forces might have melted away by desertion. Afterwards the Troops got extra pay at the Cape, and they haveit
it likewise in some of the other Colonies.
These extra allowances to our Army and Navy in different parts of the World, depending on no fixed rule either as to their amount or as to the places where they are to be given or withheld, constitute an anomaly of recent growth, and one which may sooner or later prove very inconvenient. You are familiar with the subject on account of your researches in the Committee of last Session. In India the Troops always had double pay. In the Colonies (except Ceylon so close as it is to India) neither Soldiers nor Sailors, so far as I am aware, had any extra pay until the Gold discoveries in Australia. Those created a demand which it was impossible to resist for additional allowances. They were not only just in themselves, but had they been refused, our forces might have melted away by desertion. Afterwards the Troops got extra pay at the Cape, and they haveit
it likewise in some of the other Colonies.
As to the Navy they receive extra allowances from Colonial sources in
Australia, but I fear that we have no very clear account of their
rate, and I cannot at present remember an instance of extra allowances
to the Navy in other Colonies. In India I believe that they have
Batta as the Army has, and possibly in China during the War. But on
the subject of India I speak without accurate information.
If the Navy are to have extra allowances in any other Colonies
besides Australia, I suppose that the gold-producing regions of
British Columbia & Vancouver's Island would have the best claim to
such an advantage, but you are aware that the public revenues of
those Colonies are small; and on the other hand I should hardly think
that Parliament could be asked to vote different rates of pay from
England for the Queen's Forces afloat, being asthose
those Forces are by
their very nature erratic and liable to be constantly moved from one
part of the world to another.
those Forces are by
their very nature erratic and liable to be constantly moved from one
part of the world to another.
The more I think of it, the greater appear to me the general objections
to establishing extra allowances to the Navy. The plea in the case
of Soldiers was the extra expense of living in certain colonies. But
in the case of Sailors, victuals, clothes, even luxuries, are carried
about in the same ship with them, the first issuable as rations, the
other saleable to them at a fixed price: they have nothing to do
with their money on shore except to spend it, as unhappily the poor
fellows do, in boundless riot and extravagance. Local dearness
therefore does not affect Sailors as it does Soldiers.
I may also add that in an excellent report which I have seen of a
Departmental Committee, it is shown that the high price of living in
some Colonies compared with others has been greatly exaggerated.
TFE
10 Decr
Duke of Newcastle
The question must I think, be decided by the Admiralty. It must, however,
be admitted that V. Id at this moment affords the strongest
case, probably, that can be made out in any Colony for extra
allowances—and if the Admiralty sh[ould] think that they are
necessary, or tell us that the Gunboats cannot be kept at V. Id
without them, I would give them, rather than deprive the two Colonies
of the invaluable services of these little vessels.
The question must I think, be decided by the Admiralty. It must, however,
be admitted that V. Id at this moment affords the strongest
case, probably, that can be made out in any Colony for extra
allowances—and if the Admiralty sh[ould] think that they are
necessary, or tell us that the Gunboats cannot be kept at V. Id
without them, I would give them, rather than deprive the two Colonies
of the invaluable services of these little vessels.
CF
11
By all means give the pay rather than lose the boats, but in
transmitting to the Admiralty I would suggest a doubt of its
propriety.
N
12
Other documents included in the file
Rogers to Secretary to the Admiralty, forwarding copies of the despatch and enclosures for
consideration, and expressing
views of the Colonial Office on the subject.