Colonial Despatches
The colonial despatches of Vancouver Island and British Columbia 1846-1871
Despatch to London
Seymour, Frederick to
Grenville, Richard 18 October 1867, CO 60:29, no. 11769, 302.
Abstract
Despatch to London.
Minutes (4), Other documents (1).
Seymour explains that the rivalry between Vancouver Island and the mainland stops Seymour from using a local enactment from solving the question of who is chief justice of
British Columbia. Seymour describes circumstances where the current situation with Needham and Begbie has caused judicial issues in British Columbia. Seymour proposes “the removal of one of the Judges.” Holland’s minute describes the situation in British Columbia regarding the position of Needham and Begbie and suggests how to reply to Seymour’s despatch. Rogers’s minute discusses how Seymour could solve this issue alone and how removing on judge may be a viable solution to
the current circumstances in British Columbia. Buckingham minutes that Needham refused the position in Singapore.
No. 139
18th October 1867
My Lord Duke,
I have had the honor to receive Your Grace's despatch No. 28
of the 24th May stating that the relative positions of Mr
Begbie and Mr Needhamshould
should be explained by a local enactment.
should be explained by a local enactment.
2. I do not see my way to the carrying out Your Grace's
instructions. If I throw the question open for discussion in the
Council, it will take a purely personal turn. Victoria will
support Mr Needham. The mainland probably Mr Begbie. Not
from any certainty as to the superior merits of the formerwill
will
Mr Needham be supported by Victoria but because he is known to
be more a party man than Mr Begbie.
will
Mr Needham be supported by Victoria but because he is known to
be more a party man than Mr Begbie.
3. Another great difficulty is that Mr Needham will not
acknowledge that the Legislature of the Colony has any power over
his Court. He holds that the Order in Council is supreme. Mr
Begbie, and I beg to say myself, believe that Mr Needham's
Court was abolishedon
on Union.
on Union.
4. I found an instance of the inconvenience of the present state
of things recently when Mr Needham went up to the Cariboo to hear
the case of the Flume Company against the Canadian Company. Mr
Needham heard cases where Mr Begbie had determined there was no
appeal. Mr Begbie being in New Westminster, I suggested that
he should take Mr Needham'splace
place in Victoria, but he refused
stating that it would be very unpleasant for him to have to declare
in Mr Needham's absence that he was no Judge at all, his Court
having been swept away on the Union of the Colonies. My own belief
is that Your Grace will find yourself compelled to withdraw one
of these Gentlemen. I apprehend a very unpleasant discussionin
in
the Legislative Council at its next sitting respecting the mode in
which the Judicial arrangements of the Colony are left.
place in Victoria, but he refused
stating that it would be very unpleasant for him to have to declare
in Mr Needham's absence that he was no Judge at all, his Court
having been swept away on the Union of the Colonies. My own belief
is that Your Grace will find yourself compelled to withdraw one
of these Gentlemen. I apprehend a very unpleasant discussionin
in
the Legislative Council at its next sitting respecting the mode in
which the Judicial arrangements of the Colony are left.
5. The present position of things is this—Mr Begbie holds
that the proclamation of Union abolished the Supreme Court of Vancouver
Island and extended that of British Columbia over the whole Colony.
He was until MrNeedham
Needham accepted a Commission from me previous
to his departure for Cariboo, sole Judge of that Court.
Needham accepted a Commission from me previous
to his departure for Cariboo, sole Judge of that Court.
6. Mr Needham on the other hand holds that the Supreme
Court of Vancouver Island is untouched by the Act of Union, and is
independent of the Local Legislature. If the Order in Council which
creates the Court of the Island is still in force perhaps Your
Gracewill
will be good enough to inform me if I am in the appointment
of Judges under it to use the Public Seal of Vancouver Island which
is still in my possession.
will be good enough to inform me if I am in the appointment
of Judges under it to use the Public Seal of Vancouver Island which
is still in my possession.
7. I have just received a letter from the Police Magistrate
of Victoria in which he says,
I had an interview with Mr Needham today (16th October) at
which he told me that he did not consider himself to be a Judge
of BritishColumbia
Columbia but was Chief Justice of Vancouver Island
and could not act as County Court Judge under the Ordinance of 1867.
Yet Mr Needham accepted a Commission from me creating him a Judge
of the Supreme Court of British Columbia and as such Judge has
reversed some of the decisions of the Gold Commr of Cariboo.
Columbia but was Chief Justice of Vancouver Island
and could not act as County Court Judge under the Ordinance of 1867.
Yet Mr Needham accepted a Commission from me creating him a Judge
of the Supreme Court of British Columbia and as such Judge has
reversed some of the decisions of the Gold Commr of Cariboo.
8. I shall make thebest
best of the present state of things but
I see no satisfactory issue from it save in the removal of one of
the Judges. The case is becoming more embarrassing every day.
best of the present state of things but
I see no satisfactory issue from it save in the removal of one of
the Judges. The case is becoming more embarrassing every day.
Minutes by CO staff
Sir F. Rogers
In this despatch the difficulties arising from the uncertainty whether the Court of V. Island was affected by the Act of Union & whether it can be affected by Local
Ordinance are restated.
Acknowledge & refer to the despatch of 13 Nov. in which the Govr
was informed of the opinion of the Law Officers, & a draft ordinance
was enclosed.
In this despatch the difficulties arising from the uncertainty whether the Court of V. Island was affected by the Act of Union & whether it can be affected by Local
Ordinance are restated.
Acknowledge & refer to the despatch of 13 Nov. in which the Govr
was informed of the opinion of the Law Officers, & a draft ordinance
was enclosed.
HTH
4/12
Probably this had better lie by till Mr Needham arrives.
Govr Seymour seems to me to have been raising one difficulty after
another & I cannot help believing that if he chose to settle the
difficulty he could do so. I would not therefore be inclined to
give him more help than he has had.
I should be much inclined (if Mr Needham refuses Singapore)
to write out that the question [is one] wh presented no real
difficulty whatever and that the Govt by Legislation were
perfectly competent to extricate themselves from the difficulty
& that H.G. could give them no further advice on the subject. But
I think it mt be properly added that if any officer of the
Colony, whether Judge or otherwise refused to conform his conduct to
the Law of the Colony passed in the opinion of HM's advisers by a
competent authority it wd become a question whether the public
interest wd not require that HM should be advised to remove him.
Other documents included in the file
Draft reply, Buckingham to Seymour, No. 99, 19 December 1867 stating that Seymour and the British Columbia legislature need to solve the question of the authority of Needham and Begbie without the aid of the Colonial Office and suggesting that if an officer of the colony is no longer serving the public interest,
then removing the officer may be in the public interest.