491 North America
Printed for Parl
10 Aug/48/PP 619
Hudsons Bay House
March 4 1848
My Lord
No 9
No 7
I have to acknowledge the receipt of a letter from
M Hawes dated Febr 25,
acquainting me that he is desired to remind me of my letter of
March 5 1847,
in which I submitted for Your Lordships consideration an application, on
the part of the
Hudson's Bay Company, for a grant of all the Territories
belonging to the Crown which are situated to the North and West of
Ruperts Land.
M Hawes also states that in an interview which I had with Your Lordship subsequently to that
application I was informed that the proposal I had made was too extensive for Her
Majesty's Government to entertain.
In the interview to which allusion is made, Your Lordship did not
appear to me to express yourself so decidedly as to lead me to believe
that Her Majestys Government had made up their minds on the subject,
and therefore I did not consider what then fell from Your Lordship as an
answer to my official letter of the 5 March. I regret this
misapprehension, and shall now proceed to the consideration of that part
of
M Hawes' letter now before me, in which he says that he is
directed by your Lordship to state that, if I am prepared to submit
another scheme which shall be more limited and definite in its object,
and yet embrace a plan for the colonization and government of
Vancouver's Island, Her Majesty's Government will be ready to give their
attentive and immediate

consideration to such proposal.
As far as the
Hudsons Bay Company are concerned, all that they
would require would be the very limited grant of lands which I had in
view in my letter to Your Lordship of the
7 September 1846. To
such a grant
M Hawes informed me, in his letter of
14 December
1846, Your Lordship was prepared to assent on behalf of Her Majesty's
Government, provided Her Majesty's
Attorney and
Solicitor General should
be of opinion that the acceptance of it by the Company would be
consistent with their Charter.
The opinion of the
Attorney and
Solicitor General in the
affirmative was forwarded to you on the
22 January 1847, and
on the 2 February I received a letter from
M Hawes stating
that Your Lordship was then "ready to receive and consider the
Draft of such a Grant as the Company would desire to receive of
lands belonging to the British Crown in the
Oregon Territory".
In my reply to that communication, dated
March 5, and with
reference to what from some casual conversations with Your
Lordship I had conceived was your opinion, I proposed a grant
which might appear extensive, but I did this not with the view
of obtaining for the
Hudsons Bay Company any advantage, for, as
I have already said, they as a Company require no more for the
purpose of carrying on their trade than was asked in my letter
of the
7 September 1846, and assented to by Your Lordship.
When I understood that you were desirous that a part or the
whole of the country recently confirmed to Great Britain should
be colonized, I was induced to propose that the whole should be

included in a grant to the
Hudsons Bay Company, because I was
persuaded that the colonization would be much more Successfully
conducted under the auspices of the Company, than it could be in
any other manner, as I foresaw serious difficulties should
different parts of the territory be colonized under different
authorities.
As to the territory lying eastward of the
Rocky Mountains and between the Arctic Sea and the
Company's territories, (from which it is separated by no defined or definable boundary) though its addition
to
the grant gives the latter a formidable appearance in point of extent,
it is little better than a barren waste. It is besides inaccessible
except through the Company's territories or by crossing the
Rocky Mountains from the Westward.
My object in proposing this tract of country to form a part of the
grant was that its annexation to
Ruperts Land, held of the Crown as of the Manor of East Greenwich in free and common Soccage and
not in
Capite or Knights Service, would place the whole territory north of
49 the American boundary line
under under one governing power, and thereby simplify any arrangements respecting any part
or parcel of the same; but
if Your Lordship should be still of opinion that the grant is too
extensive, the
Hudsons Bay Company are willing that it should be limited
to the territory north of 49, bounded on the East by the
Rocky Mountains, or even to
Vancouver's Island alone. In fact the Company are ready and willing to give every assistance in their
power to promote
colonization, and in any way in which Your Lordship may be of opinion
that their services can be made available towards that important object.
On that part of
M Hawes's letter in which it is assumed that the value of the coal on
Vancouvers Island will form a material consideration on the part of the
Hudsons Bay Company in any negociation
that may take place on this subject, I have only to observe that the
Company expect no pecuniary advantage from colonizing the Territory in
question. All monies received for land or minerals would be applied to
purposes connected with the improvement of the country and therefore, if
the grant is to be clogged with any payment to the Mother Country, the
Company would be under the necessity of declining it.
I have the honor to be
My Lord
Your Lordship's most obed
humble Serv
J H Pelly
The Right Hon the Earl Grey
&c &c &c
Minutes by CO staff
M Merivale. This is the ans to
M Hawes' Letter of the 25 of Feb which you will find with 475 N. A _ .
The
Hudsons Bay Company appear ready
AB 7/3/48 to accept any grant that the Crown may be advised to issue to them; and as less extensive
demands
have been insisted on from them they now state their willingness that
the grant should be limited to the Territory north of 49°, bounded
on the E. by the
Rocky Mountains, or even to
VanCouver's Island alone.
They
w decline however any grant if it were to be accompanied by a
pecuniary demand on the C for the Coal at
Van Couver's Island.
Lord Grey /
Perhaps this may stand over for
M Hawes's return, as he has a good deal considered this subject?
Time is rather an object therefore answer to the effect that I think
it will be advisable in the 1 instance to confine the grant to
Vancouver's Island,
[…] I shall be
happy consider a
proposal to that
effect proceeding on the principle suggested by the Co. that they are
not to derive any pecuniary profit from the undertaking but to apply
all money received for land or minerals towards coloniz
the island.
Other documents included in the file
Minutes by CO staff
I presume it was intended that this letter to
Sir J. Pelly should
be so communicated?
People in this document
Blackwood, Arthur Johnstone
Dundas, David
Grey, George
Grey, Henry George
Hawes, Benjamin
Jervis, John
LeMarchant, D.
Merivale, Herman
Pelly, John Henry
Organizations in this document
Colonial Office
Hudson's Bay Company
Places in this document
Oregon Territory, or Columbia District
Rupert's Land
The Rocky Mountains
Vancouver Island